Dont think that nothing can be done, thats false
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I think you misunderstand what @vgm is saying. He is stating, from the point of view he had a Zcon0 that the sentiment of the attendees was that it was already too late to stop it, so why even try. He is not saying âNothing can be doneâ personally.
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Donât think youâre too late to have an influence on what can be done because thatâs false
But the time window is closing I imagine with sapling being about the end, if you have an idea for a consensus protocol change should probably type it up soon
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I think you missed the point that Asics did enough harm allready to the community.
Zcash lost a lot of GPU miners and the arms race with the Asics was a lot faster then most thought.
Second batch may not Roi, if you lose those people too, who will be left ?
Some big farms and thatâs it, jeeej.
If you have a company like Bitmain in the States, you could have build it from scratch, the same company in China is a different cup of tea.
Bitmain has ties to the commu party, if not, they wouldnât get to the scale they are right now.
I say it again, itâs funny that the coin that pretends to be the privacy coin, put his faith into 2 chinese factories. China isnât stupid, they know Blockchain will be the future, and when that future is there, most will be ruled from China.
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Youâre right, never trust commu party (y)
I donât think it was ever in question that the introduction of ASIC miners would go like it did for bitcoin.
Have to agree on this. The actual community knew full well what was about to happen. The actual decision was made by a small group of individuals who stepped up, were vetted (what exactly that means who knows), and were accepted. Those people ignored the exceptionally clear wishes of the community and voted how they liked. Not that it really mattered either way. At the end of the day Zcash belongs to Zcash Co. not the community and Zcash Co heavy hitters (not all of them) wanted ASIC, so they got ASIC.
So Bitmain transparency was smoke and mirrors, was anyone really surprised? What they did âdiscloseâ has been called into question or just plain exposed as a lie:
There is another article on Hacked as well, but that site is paywalled.
Now that things are indeed playing out the way we knew it would, can we drop the air of how ASIC companies are the savior of crypto? Companies exist for one reason, to make money. They donât care about you, the community, or the cause. They just want to make money, as much of it as they possibly can.
Is that wrong? No, itâs not. But at the same time, claiming to be anything but a company trying to make a killing on a market by any means necessary is wrong. None of them are here to âsaveâ the project, secure the block chain, or anything benevolent. They are here to squeeze as much profit as they can from community while looking for another project to plunder. Can we accept that you canât trust Bitmain to be truthful? Or are we going to keep beating around the bushes about it? Heck call it for what it is, you can not trust ANY of the ASIC manufacturers to be truthful. Why would they if they donât have too? As long as there are people willing to blindly buy into their stories (@Zooko) of transparency and good intentions every one of them can pretty much say and do whatever they want, all while directly competing with their own customers in one, many, or all of the crypto projects.
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By now i have to agree with it.
And as you mention trust i again would say that the only one a project can trust is a stake holder with POS. Only these that stake a given amount into POS are to be trusted and only these directly invest into a given coin.
OMG âŚMost hard core Bitmain fan ,guy who i spend month arguing and who was writing 20 posts a day on âlets talk about ASIC miningâ to convince anyone that ASIC mining is gift from a god and GPU coins are peasants has write this post?
There were at least 50 000 miners mining Zcash âŚyou decide to be ASIC love coin based on 50 votes somewhere?!! Totally ignore what people in âlets talk about ASIC miningâ were writing ,and Zoco ,root moderator and boxalex were were offensive to anyone who even thing that ASIC are best for coin.
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Seems you missed a lot of my posts the last weeks. Itâs some months allready that i personally came to the conclusion that POW mining in general is too flawed and itâs coming fast and faster to itâs end and i donât make any difference by gpu, fpga or asic mining. Itâs ending, easy as that. Itâs flawed by now, easy as that.
All i see right now, until something better is coming up, is POS and CPU mining to have a chance to survive and keep decentralization upâŚ
POS is definitely one solution as itâs a level playing field as far as the lack of an âarms race of hash powerâ. The only problem I see with POS is the original issue, POS required commitment of a pre-defined amount of coins in order to participate. When a coin first starts, that water mark is very low, but as soon as value starts to rise you immediately start to price out others from being able to participate in any meaningful way (bad). It limits decentralization as the network scales up, ie only those with deep enough pockets will be able to accumulate enough coins to stake (assuming a minimum is set) which means as time goes on entry requirements become steeper and steeper. Solve that problem and POS becomes darn close to be a perfect solution.
I know someone will eventually say, well set the minimum to 1 coin then. Ok, sounds reasonable at first, but if coin value goes to 5k? 10k? or even 20k? See the problem? As value increases the potential pool of people who can afford to buy in and stake shrinks.
Not all who own the coin have to stake it. If a coin goes to 5k or 10k and required stake was 1, getting those 5k investment is the same as buying ASICS/mining rigs now right ? ATM there are 4,853,556 zcash mined, lets say 1 zcash is required for staking, daily 7200 coins are created by mining, so owner of 1 Zcash would daily receive aprox 0.00149 Zcash. In a month that is 0.0447 Zcash, which at your hypothetical 5K is 223$ per month with no cost of electricity or anything.
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Perhaps a stupid idea, but maybe PoS with a hard maximum limit would keep it decentralised.
Reward the minnows more than the whales.
âŚI have lots more stupid ideas.
100% and would be the fairess solution for any PoS coin.
It simply wonât happend, capitalism always find a way (rich = richer / poor = poorer)
I dont think we should post about PoS here, maybe open a new topic called Lets talk about PoS 
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I see where you are going, and today (right this moment) that makes senseâŚbut difficulty is rising, and it will continue to take more, and more hash power to get that â1â coin. Eventually everyone else gets pushed out and only the most efficient and biggest (economy of scale) operations can stay in a ASIC game. The same is true for POS, as long as the value/price of a coin stays low the barrier to entry is low. But as price increases the barrier increases. You mention itâs the same as buying $5k/10k/20k worth of ASIC so whatâs the difference? You fail to consider as the price jumped how many more were excluded along the way because the entry point is too steep. Thatâs the problem with both solutions, the barrier to entry is not static, it will scale either with hash power or price. Your just trading one barrier for another in the end, and both will push everyone out but the biggest players in the end. The real question is how can you implement POS in such a way that this does not happen???
Actually i came across a POS coin which is enabling a maximum stake to exactly solve this problem. Means everything above doesnât increase the rewards. Still not perfect but a huge way closer to fix this problemâŚ
This is not a stupid idea and same days ago i came across exactly of such coin that is switching from POW to POS after another successfull 51% attack. Maximum Stake, but it was mentioned yet how big a possible stake would be after which no more rewards get accumulated.
People would just get more nodes/wallets. It would be difficult to enforce it that way.