Dev Fund Polling Results: Discussion and Next Steps

I agree that we need better consensus mechanisms although consensus seems like a pretty tricky problem.

I well understand that some of the grants ZCG has approved have had highly vocal detractors (along with a lot of support that was less vehemently expressed, by the way!).

However, I don’t think the main issue is that it’s too much responsibility to put on five people. All the ZCG members I’ve worked with are high integrity, conscientious, thoughtful people, deeply aligned with the Zcash mission. It’s actually incredible to me how much devotion and work I’ve seen from them. I think five such people can do a lot!

But they are all also busy working full time jobs, many with children at home to support.

In my opinion, one way to get better performance from the ZCG would be to enable at least some members not to have to work other jobs while they do this.

ZCG work is not all about the final decision. As I’ve said before, even with a fully decentralised decision-making system in place, like coin holder voting :heart_eyes:, much of the role that the ZCG is playing will probably still be valuable, because it entails working with applicants to get their proposals aligned with what the community needs and wants.

There is advocacy in both directions, networking (getting the right people talking to each other), and dealing with personality quirks and clashes. There’s mediation, negotiation, listening, and then working to figure out which community values are at stake, what the opportunity costs are, and trying to represent the myriad voices at play. Not to mention staying on top of developments in different corners of the Zcash space and the industries that it intersects so that all of that is taken into account.

My sense is that even if the final vote casting on grants is done by a wider group of people, having a dedicated committee to do this kind of work will still be extremely valuable, perhaps especially if the people involved don’t have to wedge it in the cracks of their careers.

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@commonsense @tromp its best to call it a lockbox deflation system with eventual inflation generated from the lockbox without violating the 21 mil coins

now since having any corporate or single address to receive fund will create legal issues a decentralized system is better
but overall DAO type system were abysmal failure
so something better is much needed

zcash has a security budget problem since no tail emissions

so zcash is dependent on fees generation activity

now we could direct them to orchard get rid of t-pool sapling-pool and get positive market approval
while ZSA coin voting contracts Inheritance planning could help along with zcash as a MOE
@daira @nuttycom @str4d @joshs @conradoplg @noamchom can correct me if their are any technical mistake

Thanks to everyone for all the work assessing community sentiment!

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There is a lot of forum catching up for you to do :slight_smile:

Although it isn’t being labeled as “tail emission” there is already a designed solution that will deploy in the next couple years

The Zcash Sustainability Fund.

As I’ve suggested, it’s name “Zcash S.A.F.E.”

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@noamchom and how does that even solve the hard supply cap of 21 mil along with its security budget problem when block reward run out

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Why are you worrying now about a problem that will not manifest yet for many years to come? There is plenty of time to devise a solution. First step: Bitcoin is going to run into this problem sooner than Zcash does, so what Bitcoin does will be excellent to learn from, just as ETH transitioning to PoS has derisked that for Zcash.

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In my opinion, the limit of 21 million Zec is essential to have a shortage of coins and increase their value. For me, I would make a proposal to reduce it even further and make Zcash even more scarce. but 21 million is a good size, it would be interesting to have less, but this is perfect.

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Is it possible to make a proposal like this in the future? Suplay reduction proposal? There could be a gradual reduction so that Zcash stops issuing new coins. the solution to increasing revenue in the ProofOfStake era would be to use the network for DeFi and other features to generate a greater volume of fees to pay those who have staked

20% of fees could be burned, reducing Zcash supplay gradually and leading to a minimum of 10 million coins.

its illusion that chaning supply number actually does anything.

mcap would still be same for ex at 10m coins @ $60 or 20m coins @ $30

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for btc problem already came so they allowed ordinal rune spam now there is even talk about holder fee or holder tax basically confiscation

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@i2pZ7812HTZV69 I don’t understand what is happening with BTC. explain me better.

That’s just some stuff you see on twitter.
Some people pick it up and blow it out of proportion.
Same thing as when a post mentioned extending the zec supply above 21m.

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@ceb9ceb4ceb9cf89cf84 a day when the power that be thought to quietly release a post to check community sentiment and plant malicious seeds
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/bitcoin-hodlers-need-to-pull-their-weight-too

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as for all the twitter talk @ceb9ceb4ceb9cf89cf84

here the link

have fun :upside_down_face: :slightly_smiling_face:

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Been away and just saw your response.

Who agreed to this? LIke who read this proposal saw that we were voting on something that was not complete aka no disbursement mechanism is defined which is like the most important part of this whole thing ( who decides what to do with the money by what critiera and when) and said yes lets go forward with this proposal?

Whoever that is needs not to make any more decisions.

The way this whole thing has been managed is insane to me.

We wait till the last money to figure out what to do with a problem we knew was coming.

The propose ideas that are not fully fleshed out in one more the most important aspects of the project which has made it lag for its existence.

Wtf is going on here. I am not even trying to be an asshole and shit on everyone but I am trying to open everyone’s eyes as how awful this is/has been managed and the need for immediate change.

I am speaking from years in experience in management positions in fortune 500 companies. This is utterly insane to me.

This has to be a bigger conversation. This cannot continue or this project will fail.

Welcome to Zcash. Look at all the people who have left the project and why over the past 5+ years. The themes are the same…

i understood the funds were going to be locked until we thought out a consensus for a way to share the funds. and thats how its going to be.

ZCG will still have some funds to fund few smaller projects etc.

i agree it would be better if it was already all fleshed out but then it would have been more risky for the non core developers to have funding and many would probably leave somewhere else. and that would not be good for Zcash imo.

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This conversation has been going on for several months. The fact that you may have arrived late to the conversation does not mean that there has not been substantial discussion, on the order of hundreds of posts.

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No I don’t mean a conversation on what to do with the dev fund.

I mean a conversation on why management of everything is so shitty.

Why are we always in the same spot year after year after year.

Everyone who is part of the project keeps dreaming “we are going to change the world and bank the bankless, etc etc” yet we can’t get something so simple down.

This project will die a slow death like it has for its existence if things like this keep happening.