Solve the price of ZEC and most problems disappear. Improving the tokenomics can have a significant impact if its done correctly
What is the expected timeline of the posterity fund? (Cc @aquietinvestor) If that can be tied into the halving, then pay a % of the block reward into that until POS is activated rather than an unissued reserve proposed here… this effectively reduces inflation right now and makes a nicer reward for those who are buying ZEC in preparation of POS
My understanding is the Zcash Sustainability Fund won’t be ready in time. The unissued reserve I proposed would be allocated to the Zcash Sustainability Fund once available. In my mind they are one in the same.
That’s right. If the price were substantially over average, few people would be interested in this issue at all. But today it is in the center of attention of a large number of people, because retail investors who would be on the plus side probably do not exist. And so, unless our goal is to turn those people away from the project, we should be extremely careful with this kind of change. Ideally, I would like to see results-oriented funding. Something that opens up the possibility of funding the development layer by layer depending on the price. Not just: we fund the following activities on a list, and at price X we fund this basic set of functionality, at price Y we fund an additional set, at price Z we fund related projects aimed at long-term results. Of course, this doesn’t have to be spelled out in the consensus rules, but the community should have an understanding of the criteria. For ordinary investors, asset privacy is only part of the outcome; they want their assets to at least not lose their purchasing power.
No. We cannot do this. Sorry.
iZcashd delenda est!
What does it take to finally drop support?
Zancas falls out of Overton window again.
I propose that we explicitly include known costs incurred by assigning block-rewards to us-tax organizations.
How much downward pressure does this put on the value of ZEC relative to USD… or to put it another way: How much buoyancy are we giving to USD?
ZEC has unique properties relative to its competition, why are we not leveraging them? Anyone planning to not pay a boatload of taxes on their bitcoin sells?
Have a I missed posts in this thread where the pros-and-cons of assigning block rewards to key-holders that are NOT integrated into the US government?
I read @GGuy 's proposal correctly:
Can we get an estimate of how much value the ECC forces into USD (other fiat) by paying employees who are compelled to report and pay taxes on their income?
Did I hear the word decentralization floated somewhere?
I sincerely hope that I have missed a detailed conversation about this… it seems surreal to me that a thread about major funding movements can be this long without very directly addressing this issue.
I was just talking with Jonathan about this the other day. How much income tax obligation have the grants caused? Having to liquidate something like 21-50% of the granted ZEC (or more if the price goes down) to pay taxes in USD is murder. In hindsight, we probably should have incorporated as a non-profit to receive a grant. Arguably the grants shouldn’t be given to individuals or for-profit entities as income because it basically forces the recipient to liquidate a sizeable portion to pay USD to the government. The mission of ZF/ZCG is charitable and arguably the recipients should be charities as well (in the US at least).
I’m open to exploring alternative organisations. You have any in mind?
I think the whole point of being a 501(c)(3) nonprofit is to be tax-exempt (though I have absolutely no idea exactly how much tax-exempt they are)
I don’t think orgs should care what employees do with their money? Are you proposing they should only hire people who commit to evade taxes?
I prefer verbs other than “evade”. The structure as it stands (as I understand it) is that these institutions report on their employees.
I want to thank @skyl for some of these ideas, I didn’t want to attribute without consent, but I definitely heard these things from them.
@GGuy I have heard the idea of a 7-member globally distributed threshold-sig-share holding Zenate. Again… none of those ideas are mine.
@conradoplg There’s more to it than just that. The charity status ensures continued alignment with the mission, there is no pivoting, and It ensures that all of the development funds will be used for public goods (its the reason why the ECC was planning on changing to a non-profit way back I cant even remember exactly when.)The tax-exempt status is because the foundation, more or less, is an arbiter between the donor and intended recipient, theres nothing legitimate to tax. ZF employees pay taxes on their income and the final recipients of the funds also pay taxes on that income.
I appreciate this conciseness.
I think it’d be quite informative to get an estimate of how much of the dev fund must be converted into USD (or other vassal fiat) in order to pay income taxes.
To recapitulate, the mechanism by which taxes are extracted from “employees” is that the institutions which hold the spend capabilities (The ZF and The ECC) report their Zcash spends to other branches of the US Government.
In essence the Zcash protocol is propping up the regime.
Given that ~ 15/16 of the global population are not US Citizens… maybe there’d be an explosion of adoption/innovation/distribution of Zcash… if we got out from under the thumb of the parasitic regime atop the 1/16th.
We should at least be discussing the future in a way that’s sensitive to these possibilities.
I would adventure to assume that the ECC reports their employees earnings as well, like any employer. Other countries have similar tax systems so short of eliminating the dev fund completely, I think that argument could apply unilaterally to any jurisdiction.
Are you trying to create something or destroy something? it sounds like you care more about destroying than creating and ZEC is just a tool that is getting destroyed in the process.
If the dev reward were paid to a set of threshold signature shares that were widely distributed, then those share holders could elect to disburse to tax-integrated institutions, or not.
If each share holder were in a different tax regime, or had an anonymized location, then it’s not obvious to me that any tax authority would have the capability of taking a cut. Rather the fund would belong to the network state of Zcash.
Oh… I am looking at this… and now I am less worried:
post must be at least 10 characters.
Plus @Shawn
Let people and entities who want funding make their case to the signatories of the new Dev DAO when it’s ready. ZF, ECC, and ZCG still have some financial firepower for funding in the meantime.