Grant Application – A Plural Case for Privacy: Zcash and Islamic Digital Finance

Thank you. Yes, there is a HAQQ network and I am going to have comparative studies with ZCash. For HAQQ is the only L1 on the market. So that allows us to observe directly how the Islamic actors constructed their technical features and what they deem Shariah-compliant.

And yes, you are right that amanah is not itself a doctrine of financial privacy, and that tajassus classically concerns human conduct rather than assets. What I tried to argue is that transaction histories can reveal conduct and relationships, not merely asset ownership (for some reason I think you know, it is also a contentious concept in Islamic tradition). Whether Muslim users or Islamic-finance actors actually extend tajassus to blockchain-based financial surveillance is something the project would need to investigate empirically, rather than assume in advance. As for Amanah, it may be more relevant to the stewardship of transaction data after it has been entrusted or selectively disclosed.

The question, then, is not whether financial privacy is Islamic, but to what extent confidentiality is desirable and to whom transaction information may legitimately be disclosed. In addition to the typical privacy features, HAQQ implements a Shariah-compliance layer centered on “transparent review” by a Shariah board, while Zcash’s selective-disclosure model makes that tension especially worth examining. Thank you for pointing out the gap in my framing.

As I mentioned before, I live in an Islamic country, and fairly familiar with Islam financial regulations. Other than the internal inconsistencies of it, it usually is meaningful only in an inflation-free monetary system: and cannot be applied to any modern financial systems, including most Islamic countries.

Let me not wander around this, and stay to the point: I don’t see how Zcash is not “usable” or “liked,” or any other term you may use, by Muslims. What is the problem here?

Precisely this is the research question. The aim of HAQQ is to create a financial and information infrastructure by Muslims and for Muslims. Some Islamic countries are actively propelling an Islamic framework to displace the existing legal system, which is derived from a transatlantic trial system. HAQQ wants to be part of the future. And also Zcash. By having this research, we should have the information ahead of the regulatory body, so we will have some preparation. And for Zcash, its privacy-leaning and anti-establishment stance is now very compatible with the multipolarity world. And this study will prepare Zcash to answer the question of “how can Zcash establish itself in Islamic digital finance?”

I still have many many many concerns, confusions, and problems.
But I don’t pressure anymore, since you are in the middle of another fight, and I think you (or maybe your AI agent) is not very fluent in English.

Have a nice one.
I’m out of this thread :waving_hand:t2:

I feel like this is a misapplication. The HAQQ chain is based off Cosmos, which has virtually no privacy features comparable to Zcash; it is transparent by default. Further, HAQQ’s main strength lies in regulating PROJECTS running on the chain. For example, the Sharia board (aka just the centralisation board) can choose to completely halt a contract ecosystem based on Sharia non-compliance.

Zcash presently has no such widespread ecosystems, nor is this philosophy compatible with Zcash. It is simply too expensive to do so, even if someday the Zcash team embraced checks notes centralisation.. So I don’t think this is a concern for Zcash.

Now, if this study was to be done for a blockchain like Ethereum where such a system can be conceivably implemented today purely without a fork (via delegatecall permission oracles/custom proxy), this could maybe be worthwhile.

But same, yeah, I’m out too.

This question is from a social science perspective, so no your remark about fit is not right. I appreciate you mentioned philosophy. I do not aim to transfer technical features of HAQQ to ZCash. Cosmos is the backdrop of HAQQ but I study the philosophy of HAQQ. Totally irrelevant. As for the philosophy part, you will see why it is compatible if you see my paper, written from the perspective I have expertise in. And as I said, this research is not going to guarantee a Sharia certificate for Zcash. Although it will help Zcash to understand the Islamic market.

Appreciated you putting all the time and energy into this. I don’t see a fight; there is only negotiation. And please let me know if you have further questions.

Also, the Shariah board gives a warning first, then a grace period. The money is still movable; only HAQQ wallets will be affected. So wallets like metamask can still use the money. Not very precise.

How does that change any of what I said? Centralisation is centralisation. If a number of entities less than the majority (a consortium) or not a stakeholder (a central board) control ANYTHING that affects others in the network, the network is undisputedly centralised, such as the recent Arbitrum Nitro chains with a blacklist module in the Sequencer (Robinhood Chain).

You got the gist. They might be centralized, but they still attract millions of users. This gap is what I will study and explain to you all. Muslim users often believe in alternative cultural customs to the Western model of decentralization and disintermediation, and they prefer this. If Zcash wants to understand the Islamic market, then we have to understand what they are thinking. And this is what we humanities study.

Does it? It is the ONE question that you are being REPEATEDLY asked.

Dude, I need some time to do my research. This is only a proposal stage. Many things are yet to be figured out, and I don’t know yet at this point; hopefully I will figure them out in the future with the support of this grant.

You have a lot of very good questions. I am going to bed now, will talk to you tomorrow

Wait, wait, wait. The ENTIRE THING YOU BASED YOUR PREMISE ON, that Zcash needs this, on the basis of which you are requesting funding from ZCASH, you… need to do research on?
This can’t be real, bye. #DeadInternetTheory

Last thing before I go to bed. Yes, that’s how humanities works. I have knowledge about Islam, blockchain, and finance. And will do the research on it. Just like you know how to code and have to take time to make the actual product.

It may be how humanities works, but that’s not how grants work. A grant is given on a proven field of research, often validated by an existing, highly credible entity (the Principal Investigator), after the field of study is already mapped.

You, on the other hand, are requesting a grant to find out if there was any reason to get a grant in the first place.
Never mind, sleep well ig.

@Batuhan what do you think about this topic? It seems to me that in your country many people are much more concerned about this graph:

than about how to interpret privacy. Or am I wrong?

My point is simple: for many people, real day-to-day economic problems may matter much more than whether Zcash is explained through a specifically Islamic framework.

So I’m curious how you see it from Turkey. Do you think the main barriers are things like inflation, currency instability, access, regulation, and general trust, or do you think this kind of cultural and religious framing could really make a meaningful difference?

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The funniest thing here is that Lira’s slow Shakespearean tragedy is like, all Erdogan and Islam rather than about Turkey as a whole. He is insanely conservative regarding economic policy and publicly says his decisions are completely based off Islamic policy of no interest rates (riba) (as opposed to the Talmud’s provision for interest rates for non-Jews, which he opposes), so he cuts down interests rates like hell and fires every sensible economist who says otherwise.

He frequently defended his refusal to raise interest rates by stating, “As a Muslim, I will continue doing what our religion tells us. This is the command”. He’s like the god of religious conservatism in the face of common sense.

This is extremely ironic because this is EXACTLY what’s happening in this grant proposal: religious interests are being essentially forced to “maintain compatibility” even when the concepts are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED. It’s like- holy shit.

In my opinion, the answer is already in your question.

Speaking specifically about Türkiye, it is a secular country with a predominantly Muslim population, while also being home to people of many different faiths. Because of this, I don’t believe financial decisions are shaped by a religious framework in the same way they may be in some other Muslim-majority countries. Perhaps around 10% of the population might take that perspective into account.

The real challenges, in my view, are economic conditions: high inflation, currency instability, regulations, and accessibility. These are the issues that have the greatest impact on people’s daily lives.

For that reason, I don’t think presenting Zcash through an Islamic finance framework would make a significant difference in Türkiye. The real difference will come from introducing people to Zcash and helping them understand the value it provides. In the long run, improvements in the country’s economic conditions will also play an important role.

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Thank you for the probing. I’d like to use this opportunity to clarify that this study is not simply a market-entry adoption study but goes much further. I am not trying to answer which is more likely to encourage users to buy cryptocurrency, inflation or religion. My research question is when privacy-focused information infrastructure enters the world of Islamic digital finance, what legitimacy issues will it encounter that differ from those envisioned by Western cypherpunks?

Saying that the religious needs of Muslims are less helpful because they are already accommodating secular FinTech now is like, taking an extreme metaphor, asking if people already went far out to sea when the sailboat was invented. Current priorities do not necessarily tell us how people evaluate new possibilities once those possibilities become available. Inflation may motivate a Muslim to seek an alternative financial instrument. Then, there will be factors that they will take into account. Some factors can be: will the privacy help them bypass regulatory bodies, is the instrument morally acceptable, or what is the source of legitimacy of a blockchain? This puts Zcash in competition with other Web3 projects.

From this perspective, the cost of research is inexpensive compared to building an actual product or launching large-scale campaigns and then finding out. Before investing heavily, it is worth understanding whether there are forms of legitimacy or cultural framing that current crypto communities have overlooked.

And using Islamic digital finance as a case study, I aim to help the Zcash community understand a broader picture of cultural interplay, thereby help the community to steer a middle course with different jurisdictions and religious actors in the future (and that is the reason I often use non-Western actors rather than Islamic actors in my response).

Batuhan’s response is valuable because it highlights the historical diversity within the Islamic world: Türkiye may differ from the Gulf, or the other communities already engaging with HAQQ. This actually reinforces rather than weakens the need for comparative research. My study does not assume a single Islamic response to privacy technologies; its aim is to understand how different socio-political and religious contexts shape different understandings of legitimacy in blockchain (e.g., HAQQ, with a centralized institution, attracts more than 6 million downloads and 2 million wallets). And that is a much cheaper preparation than actually probing the boundaries of legitimacy from another community that may think differently from those of today’s core crypto ecosystem.

Since a viewing key lets someone choose exactly who sees a transaction, does that governed disclosure idea hold up the same way when the recipient is a religious authority instead of a government regulator, or does legitimacy depend on who is on the other end?