# Leap frogging zaddr **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [May 20, 2020, 6:25am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550 "2020-05-20T06:25:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![anon16456014](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@anon16456014](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/anon16456014)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/288 "2021-01-02T16:45:24Z")
I have also requested a Foundation poll. The Helios poll should gage what CAP members want to do with t-addresses. And, in my opinion, the poll should be lean and to the point. No explanations or sugar coating. I will give a rough example, but you get the point. Example (select only one): 1. Do not ever deprecate t-addreses. 2. Deprecate t-addresses only after 51% of total ZEC in supply is in shielded pool(s). 3. Deprecate t-addresses only after regulatory certainty is in place. 4. Deprecate t-addresses only after hardware wallet support is in place. 5. Deprecate t-addresses right now. In my opinion, the poll result should be binding. As a CAP member, I’m happy to accept anything the CAP votes, no matter how much I may disagree with the result. ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/289 "2021-01-02T18:59:07Z")
> [@anon16456014](#): > > Deprecate t-addresses only after regulatory certainty is in place. I’m not sure we need this. How are we going to determine that. Don’t we already have that now in few countries (US)? ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 7:00pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/290 "2021-01-02T19:00:29Z")
> [@anon16456014](#): > > Deprecate t-addresses only after hardware wallet support is in place. & multisig too Otherwise sample poll looks good to me. ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/291 "2021-01-02T19:23:13Z")
> [@nathan-at-least](#): > > In my opinion, the best way to know how much support there is for shielded ZEC is by looking at how much ZEC is in shielded pools. This is because it directly matches the existing market (by definition). I think your argument is not sound. There is no argument to support t-addr in the long term. Dev resources should be routed towards making that real. ---
**Author:** ![zooko](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/zooko/32/32232_2.png) [@zooko](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/zooko)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/292 "2021-01-02T19:54:49Z")
> [@anon16456014](#): > > In my opinion, the poll result should be binding. As a CAP member, I’m happy to accept anything the CAP votes, no matter how much I may disagree with the result. The thing is, the Zcash Community Advisory Panel can’t force anyone to stop using taddresses. Nor can the Zcash Foundation, nor can the Electric Coin Co, nor can anybody on the planet! Zcashers can keep using taddresses, and they can keep using software that supports taddresses and keep using a blockchain that supports taddresses if they want to. If there’s a group that wants to declare the existence of a chain-fork that excludes taddresses, that could be interesting! I can’t stop you, and I wouldn’t try, any more than I could have or would have stopped the Ycash chain-fork. I would be happy to use that new zaddress-only chain-fork (in addition to continuing to use the t-addresses-and-zaddresses chain-fork). But you shouldn’t imagine that you can stop others from using a chain-fork that keeps supporting taddresses. They might! Or they might not. That would be up to them. ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/293 "2021-01-02T20:56:35Z")
> [@zooko](#): > > The thing is, the Zcash Community Advisory Panel can’t force anyone to stop using taddresses. Nor can the Zcash Foundation, nor can the Electric Coin Co, nor can anybody on the planet! Then how can ZCAP decide to fund for Zcash development? What’s the point of ZCAP? What’s point of all of this discussion, why were you silent? You could’ve shared your opinion or stance much earlier, so we could’ve discussed a different subject. What do you mean ZCAP can’t enforce? how is anything going to be enforced? Who is going to decide HALO 2 deployment? who is going to make a call on old shielded pool deprecation. I’m really tired of this! ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/294 "2021-01-02T20:57:51Z")
Why can’t ECC make the software change? for those who want t-addr they can use BTC or do chain fork! ---
**Author:** ![zooko](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/zooko/32/32232_2.png) [@zooko](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/zooko)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/295 "2021-01-02T21:15:39Z")
Sure, ECC could make a software change that eliminates t-addresses. So could anybody! So could the Zcash Foundation. So could anyone else with even a little bit of software development skill. In fact, anyone who wants to do that could probably just use that software change that one of the Zcash-clones has done. I think it’s called “ARR Chain”? There are one or more Zcash clones out there that have already made this software change. What ECC can’t do — and what literally nobody on this planet can do — is force people to download and run that software and put their money into it. ---
**Author:** ![zooko](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/zooko/32/32232_2.png) [@zooko](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/zooko)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/296 "2021-01-02T21:28:49Z")
related: [What do we do about legacy value pools? - #61 by zooko](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/what-do-we-do-about-legacy-value-pools/37739/61) ---
**Author:** ![amiller](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/amiller/32/10_2.png) [@amiller](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/amiller)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/297 "2021-01-02T21:55:38Z")
I would be interested in doing an official zcap poll (or bundling such a question into the next time we convene zcap) to the extent we’d use it to pick ZF roadmap and priorities. Maybe ECC would agree to follow the outcome of it too. I’m personally most interested in plans that discourage t addr use without prohibiting them altogether > ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/298 "2021-01-02T22:14:45Z")
> [@zooko](#): > > What ECC can’t do — and what literally nobody on this planet can do — is force people to download and run that software and put their money into it. Can you say the same thing for HALO 2 then? ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 10:16pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/299 "2021-01-02T22:16:12Z")
> [@amiller](#): > > I’m personally most interested in plans that discourage t addr use without prohibiting them altogether You could add that as an option to the poll. ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/300 "2021-01-02T22:18:09Z")
> [@amiller](#): > > I would be interested in doing an official zcap poll (or bundling such a question into the next time we convene zcap) to the extent we’d use it to pick ZF roadmap and priorities. Maybe ECC would agree to follow the outcome of it too. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 ---
**Author:** ![Mikerah](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/mikerah/32/13917_2.png) [@Mikerah](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Mikerah)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/301 "2021-01-02T22:44:55Z")
> [@zooko](#): > > I would be happy to use that new zaddress-only chain-fork (in addition to continuing to use the t-addresses-and-zaddresses chain-fork). There are many Zcash forks that are z-addrs only and they too have abysmal usage rates. If there was more of a community around the Zcash forks and blockchains using Zcash’s core tech (zk-SNARKs) then it can help gauge realistic goals for increasing shielded pool usage + any ideas/research from those communities. ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/302 "2021-01-02T23:03:05Z")
A while ago ECC team were much interested in introducing consensus change to reject t2t & deprecate t-addr: > [@Leap frogging zaddr](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/198): > > Yes. It is about setting circumstances & forming rules under which community can stop t2t, then z2t etc Jack from ECC, Regulatory Affairs: > [@Leap frogging zaddr](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/205): > Now suddenly, no one can change Zcash & its consensus rules. ---
**Author:** ![secparam](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/secparam/32/17461_2.png) [@secparam](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/secparam)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/303 "2021-01-02T23:13:39Z")
Im not sure thats, fair, Halo and pollard are a consensus change ECC wants right? ---
**Author:** ![str4d](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/str4d/32/64_2.png) [@str4d](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/str4d)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 12:33am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/304 "2021-01-03T00:33:12Z")
> [@dontbeevil](#): > > Right now, users have no choice. They are already being forced to use zcashd with 16 week auto-deprecation feature. Anyone who does not want to be constrained by the 16 week End-of-Support halt for their use of `zcashd`, can make a very simple change to the code (far easier than any of the code or chain forks) and then compile the code. The only constraint here is that ECC doesn’t support versions that have reached ECC’s EoS halt, so those users would need to either support themselves, or find support elsewhere. Yes “compile the code” is a barrier to some users, but _anyone_ could provide that support, if there were users who wanted it. Someone could literally fork `zcash/zcash` and all they do is patch the EoS halt, build binaries, and distribute them to users. In doing so, they would be taking responsibility for supporting those users, and could offer whatever support policy they want. _Forcing_ users to always use ECC’s `zcashd` would look like `zcashd` having an auto-update feature, so the default is that anyone choosing to install ECC’s software once and then forgetting about it will automatically follow everything ECC subsequently decides. That’s something ECC has **strongly** opposed since the beginning, preferring that users make a conscious choice about the software they run. ---
**Author:** ![zooko](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/zooko/32/32232_2.png) [@zooko](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/zooko)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/305 "2021-01-03T01:03:42Z")
Oh, if you think I’m being dishonest, then I won’t waste any more of your time. ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:40am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/306 "2021-01-03T01:40:46Z")
I think @str4d clarification made sense. I take my comment back ---
**Author:** ![dontbeevil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@dontbeevil](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dontbeevil)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550/307 "2021-01-03T01:48:53Z")
I was comparing HALO change with t-addr deprecation. One is supported by ECC, the other not. [Previous page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/leap-frogging-zaddr/36550.md?page=16)