# Let’s talk about ASIC mining **URL:** \ **Category:** Mining\ **Created:** [February 24, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353 "2018-02-24T23:15:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 227
**Author:** ![boxalex](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/boxalex/32/14872_2.png) [@boxalex](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/boxalex)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4746 "2018-08-14T15:00:23Z")
> [@chucky732](#): > > By the way out of the 4512 post 611 are your’s and your mighty then tho and your never wrong!!! I try to be nice but you called me a lair. - I never said and never would claim that my posts are all perfect, at least i always tried to be fair, back them up whatever. Doesn’t matter at all, at least 500 mine i could just have spared as obviously correcting, asking, questioning and everything else is long time ago fruitless as the most arguments, no matter if right or false, are just repeated endless. Facts, arguments, charts … nobody really cares, it’s all about own business… - you can’t accuse me of never being wrong. Actually i’am for sure the one in this thread that most times admitted a wrong argument, wrong conclusion whatever. If you didn’t notice that, you didn’t read the whole 4515 posts until now. The title “never wrong” for sure goes to other people. I could recommend some, but no need either, as it would again be namecalling and by now i’am sick of it. - While i was pro asic, i’am not anymore, doesn’t mean i will tolerate wrong arguments, facts, whatever posted. Actually, i don’t care anymore to be honest. These days anyway show that the private home mining is coming to its end allready. Not that i have not predicted it, it just happens faster as i thought it happen. Many asics are no more profitable with average electricity costs and the view coins left for gpu mining will soon be overflooed by “emigrating” coins which are no more profitable. Means, as i’am confident that private POW mining is ending soon i can care less of whatever direction a project goes, as the only option soon or late is POS, hence why i’am pro-POS and against that mega flawed no more (soon) POW mining… ---
**Author:** ![boxalex](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/boxalex/32/14872_2.png) [@boxalex](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/boxalex)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 3:07pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4747 "2018-08-14T15:07:24Z")
> [@MikeZhukov](#): > > As I know only Inno3D stated that mining voids their warranty Asus: “Please be advised if the unit is used for crypto currency mining this will void the warranty.” Inno: This product is not designed for Crypto Mining. We reserve the right to void the warranty if there is any damage associated with this application PNY: THIS WARRANTY SHALL NOT APPLY WHERE PRODUCT(S) ARE USED TO ANY DEGREE, OUTSIDE OF NORMAL INTENDED USE, WHICH SHALL INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO “MINING” (e.g., Cryptocurrency, Data Mining, Mining Farms). XFX: What is not covered by this limited hardware warranty? Products used outside of normal home and personal use. This includes industrial, business, mining, mining farms, rendering farms, computer clusters, and server use. Too lazy to find look up all the others. Just be sure all have these, expect the ones that are designed for mining which have a very lower warranty anyway. And as a general rule: As soon as somethng gets modified and not use as it was inteneded to be used, the warranty gets voided, just applies to absolutly everything that is available… ---
**Author:** ![dzonikg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee59a6/32.png) [@dzonikg](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dzonikg)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 3:08pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4748 "2018-08-14T15:08:02Z")
Call them and they will tell you [https://www.emmi.rs](https://www.emmi.rs) Reason i always bought new GPU HERE in my country is WARRANTY…i could buy much cheaper form Hungary because i get WAT return but then if i need warranty i have to go to Hungary and then back again to pick up so its like no warranty or if i buy from [Amazon.de](http://Amazon.de) i need to send to Germany card if something is wrong…by buying local i pay little more but if anything is wrong i got all money return even after 2 years 11 months and 20 days since purchase. Also when i returned GPU no one asked me did i mine or not…or what i did with GPU …and like i sad even if there is something and in my country does not( everyone with good GPU last few years mined with it more or less) there is no way they can know. ---
**Author:** ![dzonikg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee59a6/32.png) [@dzonikg](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dzonikg)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 3:13pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4749 "2018-08-14T15:13:12Z")
> [@boxalex](#): > > Many asics are no more profitable with average electricity costs and the view coins left for gpu mining will soon be overflooed by “emigrating” coins which are no more profitable. Means, as i’am confident that private POW mining is ending soon i can care less of whatever direction a project goes, as the only option soon or late is POS, hence why i’am pro-POS and against that mega flawed no more (soon) POW mining… Yes mining is dying for private but not because off electricity cost…its because ASIC manufacturer want all money for them self …if something is still very profitable like Zcash they will sell you hardware at 5 times real cost ,if its low profitable they will just sell outdated hardware and new that makes money keep for their mining facilities…you really thing Bitmain would invest 500 million dollar in mining facility in Texas if they want return that money. ---
**Author:** ![MikeZhukov](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/mikezhukov/32/9966_2.png) [@MikeZhukov](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/MikeZhukov)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4750 "2018-08-14T15:31:49Z")
I’ve written Inno3D as an example of ones who even write it on box. And yes - such a limitations of use may be illegal in some countries. Examples: 1. You use your home computer 24/7 for VPN when you’re outside it. It’s usage in server. 2. You use your home computer for solving business problems at home. It’s usage for business. 3. You are recoding your home video collection using more than 1 GPU. It’s rendering farm. I don’t know how it works in your country but in mine it’s illegal to refuse of service. They should accept device and then prove that warranty is void and you have right not to tell anything and it’s not a proof. P.S If such a non-sense discution about warranty of ASICs and GPUs is so important for PoS/ASIC-lovers I’am happy of strength of general pro-GPU argumentation. ---
**Author:** ![johnwisdom](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/johnwisdom/32/5836_2.png) [@johnwisdom](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/johnwisdom)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4751 "2018-08-14T18:25:18Z")
> [@chucky732](#): > > You do realize that warranties are not the same in different countries? If the company doesn’t offer warranty for mining that’s the end of the road. Nothing to do with “other countries”. > [@MikeZhukov](#): > > In any country you’ve right not to tell how you’ve used it at all. Silence is not lie Your statement is incorrect. Not telling the truth when requested is a crime (generally speaking and not specifically). > [@MikeZhukov](#): > > but I’am pretty sure that it’s illegal in some countries and it’s possible to sue them about it but it’s not economically effective to hire lawyers for it Pretty sure based on what? All warranties have conditions that must be respected in full to make them valid. To make a quick comparison: jailbreaking your iphone voids warranty. If you bring a jailbroken iphone under warranty you won’t get served. If you clean your system and then bring it in and you don’t tell them about jailbreaking they will cover the repairs/replacement, but, you would be commiting a crime. If you clean your system, bring the phone and tell them you have jailbroken the phone, guess what? Warranty is voided and you won’t get your repairs/replacement for free. > [@MikeZhukov](#): > > It’s easier just to bring GPU to the shop where you’ve bought it not saying details. That’s shady and unethical. Personally I’ve got no problem if you abuse the system and play the “i don’t know” game, but only because you choose to not play fair doesn’t mean everyone can and should follow your suggestions. If a GPU is used for mining, then stating _GPU’s have longer warranty than ASIC_ is a false statement. Lying is immoral; universally. > [@boxalex](#): > > And as a general rule: As soon as somethng gets modified and not use as it was inteneded to be used, the warranty gets voided, just applies to absolutly everything that is available… ++++ > [@dzonikg](#): > > Call them and they will tell you > > [https://www.emmi.rs](https://www.emmi.rs) 100% will do and give everyone feedback of the phone call. (Will call tommorow morning) > [@dzonikg](#): > > Also when i returned GPU no one asked me did i mine or not…or what i did with GPU Someone is doing their job every badly then. As a vendor you should always ask for the reasons and get more information possible, expecially with a warranty return. In any case playing “the fake dumb card” is still commiting a crime. Tommorow I’ll have confirmation of what you are stating. > [@MikeZhukov](#): > > I don’t know how it works in your country but in mine it’s illegal to refuse of service. Stop bringing “other countries” into the discussion, it’s misleading and not productive at all. > [@MikeZhukov](#): > > They should accept device and then prove that warranty is void and you have right not to tell anything and it’s not a proof. You are basing your whole argument on commiting a crime. If GPU manufacturer won’t offer warranty on cards that have been mining then whatever argument you are building around **this fact** is pure immoral BS that shouldn’t be tollerated in these forums. GPU mining cards have 3 to 6 months of warranty. ASIC mainly 6 months. END OF DISCUSSION. Please stop the bla bla @MikeZhukov ---
**Author:** ![JKDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@JKDC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/JKDC)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4752 "2018-08-14T18:45:28Z")
EVGA and MSI have good warranties. I don’t believe either refuse service because of mining. ---
**Author:** ![johnwisdom](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/johnwisdom/32/5836_2.png) [@johnwisdom](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/johnwisdom)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4753 "2018-08-14T19:20:51Z")
> [@JKDC](#): > > EVGA and MSI have good warranties. I don’t believe either refuse service because of mining. that’s some good information ---
**Author:** ![MikeZhukov](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/mikezhukov/32/9966_2.png) [@MikeZhukov](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/MikeZhukov)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4754 "2018-08-14T20:31:26Z")
You started this bla bla, trying to deny something that was out of doubt - 3 year GPU warranty. Surely this forum is a really polite place where we can discuss some juridical questions, but if you try to state this on coments of Youtube crypto-channels or mining-dedicated forums it will cause a lot of lols. And mining versions of GPUs are usually blamed there exactly because of short warranty period. If you think that such warranty limitations may be legal in some countries or everywhere - OK. There is another international rule - de facto and de jure may be diffirent. If it’s impossible to prove that someone fought the law he hasn’t done it de jure because of presumption of innocence. And it’s possible to get repairment de facto because of inproofability of mining usage. To sum up: ASICs have better warranty de jure GPUs have better warranty de facto ---
**Author:** ![dzonikg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee59a6/32.png) [@dzonikg](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dzonikg)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4755 "2018-08-14T20:42:08Z")
> [@johnwisdom](#): > > If the company doesn’t offer warranty for mining that’s the end of the road. Nothing to do with “other countries”. > > ![](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/mikezhukov/40/9966_1.png) MikeZhukov: Maybe in US companies are above state low but it does not mean its everywhere in the world…when i buy GPU or any device i got warranty paper with start date and end off warranty day …and if in that paper dont say that mining brakes warranty and it does NOT SAY…then they cant do nothing…i dont care what some company post on internet …only legal is whats on paper off warranty. Here every electric device has 2 years minimum warranty …that is the law…and its probably last 50 year like that…even if my light bulb die in 2 year period i return them and they must give me new…i only need original bill… i already returned lot off light bulb…yes they are cheap but i dont care…i even return usb sticks. I dont know how is other europe countries…maybe because we were socialist country so law stayed from then …then stuff was expensive but was built to last…not years but decades. By selling ASIC only online from China they are bypassing are law and you dont have protection like when you buy here something. ---
**Author:** ![bitcartel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/bitcartel/32/8558_2.png) [@bitcartel](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/bitcartel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4756 "2018-08-14T22:04:55Z")
ASIC Animal Farm… Summary: Bitmain and other ASICs to be forked off the network, temporarily, giving owners of Obelisk ASICs an exclusive period of mining. Coindesk: [https://www.coindesk.com/coders-renew-efforts-to-fork-mining-giant-bitmain-off-siacoin-blockchain/](https://www.coindesk.com/coders-renew-efforts-to-fork-mining-giant-bitmain-off-siacoin-blockchain/) > The Sia core developers are currently considering community member FaustianAGI’s proposal and will soon be issuing an official response. As of today, all Nebulous (the company employing Sia’s core developers) and Obelisk employees are supportive of a fork. Proposal: [Community Fork Proposal](https://docs.google.com/document/u/2/d/e/2PACX-1vSbeNaLNsGfK-R3qYeRFvtMCd8phUbnv6SQwniXngu12j_GveSZAFmX4d_5FpHAz7mWQJQkZD1y6sl8/pub) > It is our understanding that Obelisk SC1 units contain specific code able to mine a slightly modified version of the blake2b algorithm and that switching the Sia network to this algorithm would create a circumstance where only these units can operate on the network until such a time that others develop new ASICs or alter current systems. Enabling this alternate algorithm requires a soft fork of the Sia blockchain. > > The proposal > Create an Obelisk Exclusive Mining Period > > The community calls for a scheduled algorithm change to implement the exclusive code inside the Obelisk SC1 units with a further scheduled change reverting to the original algorithm at a specified goal of between 10,000 and 12,500 blocks. This number of blocks should cover strict ROI for all purchasers including shipping, VAT and other expenses incurred outside of electricity. After the second switch, Obelisk owners would be able to compete fairly against all other ASIC miners. Discussion: [Reddit - Dive into anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/siacoin/comments/94ji0q/a_community_proposal_to_resolve_the_obelisk/) ---
**Author:** ![Autotunafish](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/autotunafish/32/7827_2.png) [@Autotunafish](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Autotunafish)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4757 "2018-08-14T22:56:05Z")
The only reason given (that I found) “The news is notable as it showcases how cryptocurrency communities are responding to the expanding business interests of Bitmain, the China-based mining giant that [CoinDesk revealed last week](https://www.coindesk.com/crypto-unicorn-bitmain-weighs-18-billion-ipo-one-of-worlds-largest/) is seeking to raise one of the largest-ever initial public offerings (IPOs).” Seems kind of pettty ---
**Author:** ![CrypTunico](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptunico/32/10584_2.png) [@CrypTunico](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/CrypTunico)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4758 "2018-08-14T23:39:25Z")
When the “Obelisk only” period is over and new and more powerful compatible ASICs are developed, will Sia’s devs create a “Old ASICs only” period for those who supported Sia’s project by putting their money on ASICs and will be unable to compete with newer ASICs? And over and over…? ---
**Author:** ![bitcartel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/bitcartel/32/8558_2.png) [@bitcartel](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/bitcartel)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4759 "2018-08-14T23:45:15Z")
Perhaps related to this $58 router… > ---
**Author:** ![Autotunafish](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/autotunafish/32/7827_2.png) [@Autotunafish](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Autotunafish)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:27am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4760 "2018-08-15T00:27:54Z")
> **[Bitmain Launches Antrouter R3-DASH and R3-SIA for mining DASH & Siacoin -...](https://blockpitch.org/2018/08/11/bitmain-launches-antrouter-r3-dash-and-r3-sia-for-mining-dash-siacoin/10916/)** > > Bitmain, the mining hardware giant has announced the launch of two internet routers that could mine DASH and SIACOIN. In a tweet shared online, the giant said that they’ll be named “Antrouter R3-DASH and Antrouter R3-SIA” and will function... Apparently they’re being marketed as a fairly inefficient way of mining, an excerpt “Having miners setup in television, routers seems to be a good idea and is good for people who aren’t into professional mining. We were able to test the R3-Litecoin mining router, which belongs to R3 series and the results weren’t that interesting. However, this actually is a good setup for people who love the idea of mining cryptocurrencies and aren’t behind making money, but don’t want to get into it professionally.” No actual numbers (correction, R3LTC 11.5mhs @ 23watt) , but it seems strange if this is the reason sia is forking because even though it’s only bitmain making it there going to make it so potentially anybody with an internet Wi-Fi router could drive the sia network and for not too expensive a price Edit- though it does say limited quantity available, I can’t imagine that amounts to a whole lot of hash power Edit2- just a thought but maybe bitmain is moving towards this as a business strategy, large rigs are expensive and a lot of people don’t mine because of that reason, that router is very cheap, idk seems strange ---
**Author:** ![bitcartel](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/bitcartel/32/8558_2.png) [@bitcartel](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/bitcartel)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4761 "2018-08-15T00:38:06Z")
Regarding the reasons, from [the proposal](https://docs.google.com/document/u/2/d/e/2PACX-1vSbeNaLNsGfK-R3qYeRFvtMCd8phUbnv6SQwniXngu12j_GveSZAFmX4d_5FpHAz7mWQJQkZD1y6sl8/pub): > Current legal efforts by some Obelisk ASIC customers for missed shipment dates and units delivered at possibly lower than promised specifications could have the effect of negatively impacting the Sia project through the cross-linkage of the Obelisk company and the primary Sia developer, Nebulous Inc. > The community calls for a scheduled algorithm change to implement the exclusive code inside the Obelisk SC1 units with a further scheduled change reverting to the original algorithm at a specified goal of between 10,000 and 12,500 blocks. This number of blocks should cover strict ROI for all purchasers including shipping, VAT and other expenses incurred outside of electricity. ---
**Author:** ![Autotunafish](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/autotunafish/32/7827_2.png) [@Autotunafish](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Autotunafish)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4762 "2018-08-15T01:48:22Z")
Ehhh that proposal carries undertones (I know you didn’t write it), we should definitely pay attention to what happens though ---
**Author:** ![ZC93](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/87869e/32.png) [@ZC93](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/ZC93)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4763 "2018-08-15T03:00:24Z")
> [@Shawn](#): > > Not quite, there is a big difference between stress testing **prototypes** for resilience and _selling the stress tested protoypes_ to the public. Stress testing of prototypes is called Highly Accelerated Life Testing (HALT). Again its been around for decades. I NEVER presented any HALT data as its purpose is specific to the design phase and has absolutely nothing to with product burn in. The data I presented was SPECIFICALLY for stress screening / burn in on electronics to be sold. I could provide hundreds of additional FACTS on this subject, I did this for a living. In all honestly I don’t think that matters, or presenting any more FACTS would do any good. Shawn, you just do not understand this subject matter. I am seriously concerned for you. You seem to consistently engage in denialist tactics, protecting some “overvalued ideals” that perhaps may be critical to your identity. Legitimate dialogue is not possible since you are only interested in protecting these ideals, regardless of the scientific facts. Then again, maybe you simply hate to be wrong. Ether way, I really wish I could be of more help to you. Good luck to you. ---
**Author:** ![Uche32](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/uche32/32/11569_2.png) [@Uche32](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Uche32)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4764 "2018-08-15T12:16:11Z")
Guys, maybe a dumb question, my father gets an ASIC and me too. Would it be more clever to mine on same address or it doesn’t give any pros doing so? Of course if we gonna hate us one day it won’t be the best thing LUL. ---
**Author:** ![nec](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d9b06d/32.png) [@nec](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/nec)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353/4765 "2018-08-15T12:19:55Z")
20M diff - everyone ready for second, big, bitmain batch? :))) ultra safe and stable network coming very soon, lol [Previous page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353.md?page=226) [Next page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/let-s-talk-about-asic-mining/27353.md?page=228)