Let’s talk about ASIC mining

I still support the friendly - fork if asic-resistance is what is voted,
I think after the split and forward spending time limit, allowing the oldZcash chain minable block rewards for another 6mo or so, just keep it mining allowing people who get left behind the possibility to trade it or whatever, then after the rewards stop theyre left with a dead Zk-snarks capable messanger currency which they node and asic mine for their transaction fees between themselves (or chain depreciation I guess but they did build that little thing ya know, let them decide when to throw it away)

There’s a reason ZCash had the Dev fee that everyone was annoyed about…causing forks like Zclassic and Zen. The people behind Zcash (there are people behind every coin)…these people, are motivated by profit. Nothing wrong with that.

But when you sell out your core values (ASIC resistance) because you see higher profits, then you have low character and low integrity. The Zcash team had a responsibility to the community that got them to where they are at present. The fact that they are even considering not forking or not resisting ASICs illustrates their character and values.

To say they owe it to the miners that put them in the position they are in to fix the threat caused by ASICs is an understatement. It is their duty. But I think the writing is on the wall.

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I have lost faith in Zcash and the development team that they are debating to fork or not and are not protecting the network. It appears they are are just a bunch of programmers (there have been signs i.e. no default wallet; things don’t happen in this world unless you push it) and don’t have the vision to be the leader in next generation of Crypto currencies **or it is a scam to cash out founders reward. ** People don’t trust Zcash again or their parameter generation ceremony no mater what the say from now on even if they fork the team is not upto task, there should be new leadership or council.

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For those of you that think that ASIC means the end of decentralization and at the same time you have your GPU rigs pointing to Flypool, there is one simple work that describes your point of view - hypocrisy.

And those of us who mine on another pool like Nano Pool or Dwarf Pool…what are we then? Maybe there is a lot of Bitmain Z9 hash power on Flypool? Who is to say unless they do as Monero did, and kill the ASIC…then it became REALLY apparently what the deal was.

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Oh, I would love if that were true, but Sapling is a very complex piece of cryptographic engineering. We’ve been working on it for well over a year at this point (and on the designs of various components of it since before we even launched the Zcash network / Zcash Sprout). Here are the blog posts that outline the various moving pieces:

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Have to agree. You can’t make speculation on how long it should take unless your elbows deep in the development yourself. It’s easy to arm chair rule on it. Full Disclosure: I also have a CS BS in C, C++ among other things.

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If they cared about ethics, they would keep to their word and not backpedal, change previously written statements, dodge direct questions or stall.

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Cryptomined summed it up pretty well I think. Along with documenting post changes after Zooko made his 3rd April post.

It was stated. Repeatedly. Honor it.

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Well, right now ZCash community has bigger problem needs to be solved, than transactions speed. But we didnt see ZcashCo position on that matter

Diversity is strength :slight_smile:

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Just fork stupid asic’s , they are like plague…

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I agree. It’s getting the ZcashCo to get their priorities straight…that’s the challenge.

I had a novel idea last night. Why can’t the founders come up with an arrangement with Bitmain? Maybe start a Zcash store, where the miners are sold exclusively by the foundation to it’s user base for ZEC? Maybe buy them and hand them out in a Zcash advertisement campaign? We are not Bitcoin, we have a corporate shell with ZcashCo that can make arrangements in a business manner. Bitmain gets their money, the community gets even distribution with the ASIC miners. Win/win, correct?

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OK, here is another one. The foundation buys them up and has them delivered to Venezuela.

I think that if there was an open and shared community for the development of Asics with highly distributable projects, it would make sense to continue on the path of Asic mining. But with just one big company that holds the monopoly without any competitors like Intel vs AMD it’s no sense.

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I hate to be blunt but your idea is not sound, it is has blown my mind. I’m not even going to go into how bad of an idea that is.

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ASIC technology is the way mining should be.

I believe what people don’t like about ASICs nowadays is actually just hate for Bitmain, perhaps rightfully so. So easy to hate the big guy. Anybody old enough to remember the wintel monopoly when it still was cool to debate it? Does anybody know why that debate is dead? Because Intel and Microsoft are no longer market leaders, because the market has shifted to the cloud and mobile. Yes they still big, yes they still cash rich, but they aren’t market innovators and they do not influence technology as they once did. So what’s the moral of this story? Don’t worry about bitmain, the market is massive and we are right in it’s infancy now. There will be others that enter the market to compete with Bitmain. So don’t say ASICs are bad. Saying so just makes you sound like a luddite.

BTW, if you think GPU mining is what makes wall street want to get behind your coin, you’re dreaming. Is like trying to get big money to invest in your coal mine by showing him the teaspoon you’re using to mine with. Wake up.

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That’s simply not true. Bitmain has competitors: Halong, Innosilicon, Ebang, Baikal, Canaan, and Pangolin to name a few. Manufacturers | ASIC Miner Value So, until the competition catches up, why can’t the ZcashCo protect us and support the network at the same time?

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Because your coin is not competing with bitmain. Your coin is competing with other coins. Bitmain is your ally, not your enemy. Hard to see it when you have invested in all the GPU gear, I get it. But trying to manipulate the market to entice other competitors to join is a chicken/egg delima. ASICs raise the value of your coin. Killing ASICs scare off all the other competitors you just listed.

It’s pretty obvious here that people will just say whatever they need to say to protect the investment they made in their gear. Guaranteed if there’s a guy getting into mining today, they will buy an ASIC if they can manage the hardware correctly. Nobody’s going to start as a freshman GPU miner anymore. The risks are simply too big. Sell your gear while you can get some money for it - that was one of the reasons why you guys prefered GPU anyways…resale value.