Let’s talk about ASIC mining


#2212

“The ASIC’s (Red Coats) are coming!” Yes, they are coming but the community who stands for freedom from mining centralization by BITMAIN will rise up and be stronger than the community who surrenders to BITMAIN.


#2213

I moved my meager mining operation from Flypool to Nanopool as soon as I learned the former was well over the 51% mark.

Note to ZCash stewards: There will always be threats to this endeavor. They will come in many forms. It is your moral duty to foresee what they can be and move to interdict any potential compromises that can come. Just like the ASIC issue - and the underlying reality that you should have known better - so, too, is the pool centralization threat. There are many others. You must be ready for them and not simply react to them and talk about them ad nausea.


#2214

You’re sadly mistaken. The Z9 has BEEN here mining for at least the past 6 months at a minimum by BITMAIN exclusively. It’s also quite obvious they have a faster Equihash rig in the works. I will bet you 1.0 ZEC that you will see at least 50% of the network hash was ASIC if we fork off the ASIC’s.

Those who buy the Z9 will be buying an old rig. BITMAIN wants to take those off the shelf and ship to you as they replace them with a Z11 that you will not hear about until this time next year.


#2215

Agree 100% with your assessment.


#2216

My opinion is that the discussion is between those who have already invested in the GPU and those who plan to buy ASIC.
So if Zcash is the lord then ASIC miners are vassals, and GPU miners are mercenaries.
Imagine that tomorrow they will create a platform where the GPU can engage in a rending with much greater benefit than the mining, which will keep most of the treason.
Will remain only those who plan an attack of 51% and this is possible with gpu.
If the rendering is x10 then everything is possible.
Sorry for my English


#2218

BINGO!!!

THIS WOULD REDUCE ALL MINERS TO ONE SUPPLIER and give BITMAIN more control over what can and cannot be implemented in the future.


#2219

If fork occurs then the proposed business strategy will do the maximum possible damage to the manufacturer of the asics. This is not permissible even for China


#2220

More specifics… Cause I honestly do not see what was so eye opening truth bombs in that article. Also, what are you calling, “truth” while referring to something else as a lie?


#2221

Most likely the fact that parameter changes may not be enough to defeat an ASIC. So the likelihood of a hard fork of Zcash in December is even lower now. A new PoW algorithm will have to be developed to stay ahead of ASIC’s for 6 months.


#2222

There is no reason to believe David Vorick. He’s lied in the past, by claiming in November that his Siacoin were 45% more powerful than they actually are. I also think the whole crowdfunded ASIC was incredibly sleazy. I would never trust him given his past behavior. His article has no evidence either, just rumors.

Second, let’s let ASIC manufacturers worry about whether their ASICs will survive a proof of work tweak. If GPU miners fail to get rid of ASIC miners (which is very unlikely), then they’ve lost very little. If ASIC miners fail to survive a fork (which is very likely), they’ve lost millions.

The dynamics of the battle between ASIC and GPU miners so heavily favor GPU miners that it can only be by the deliberate choice of the developers that a cryptocurrency becomes an ASIC-mineable coin.


#2223

Yes, most certainly agree! I only hope the developers choose consensus with GPU miners instead of BITMAIN.


#2224

days later . Are You going to do something or No.

simple qst


#2225

Posting this again but with less comment to be found “offensive” to other readers:

NOTE what is highlighted with bold writing?

Does that sound like ASIC RESISTANCE to you?

Makes you wonder if Zooko [And possibly other ZCash developers] have had an idea in mind for engineering, designing and manufacturing an ASIC specific to ZCash for quite a while. In fact, I personally know a couple of individuals who have a back room VIP meeting with Zooko at ZCon0 in Canada to discuss ASIC’s for ZCash. I’m not sure whether or not the meeting is still planned after recent events but I do know that such a meeting was planned. I’m not giving names but I know it was planned.

I could care less if one of my friends (VIP) is affected financially if a ZCash ASIC does not work out for him with ZEC. I do know it will affect me and many others financially if a “…specialized miners get developed” specifically for ZCash.

I personally have invested nearly $160,000. So, this is a rather serious matter to me. Mining and crypto trading is my life. It’s how I provide for my family. My wife does not work. She stays home to homeschool our son. I don’t have a job or work anywhere except home. I’m the only one providing for my family and it’s all done with mining and trading. That’s probably the main reason why I’m so passionate about this.

If you do not believe I have invested what I say, have a look at this forum I created on bitcointalk.org in regards to my fourth mining room remodel for better cooling: This is page 6 of that forum… Feel free to add any ideas/photos of your own setup if you like for all of us as a community to learn from one another in regards to “ideas” for better cooling setup - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2865914.100


#2226

All I hear about on the thread it the inevitability of ASIC’s, so we should just give up. The reality is that the tech is coming for real ASIC proof. ASIC’s can be circumvented to be not much better or even worse than a GPU / CPU. Its just a matter of time.

Having developed nine ASIC’s, I can say the the hardware engineers underestimate the software engineers, and the opposite is also true. Once the problem / challenge is out in the open and understood, innovation takes over. The flexibility of software is not even comparable to the flexibility of even a hybrid ASIC’s. Dynamic algorithms constantly changed by the network in a random fashion are coming (Raven is a rather poor example), and I’ve seen a few other very clever ideas.

ASIC’s are not the end of the story, they are the binging. The future will be very different than people think.


#2228

So I said this back in Feb 2017

and was criticized for it.

So while I saw this coming the tide is now tunning, Software engineers are getting a rapid education on what the hardware engineers can do. Both will always say they have the upper hand but the reality of the situation will be a stalemate. Software will drive algorithms to a point that ASIC’s are irrelevant. That is progress, that is innovation, and that is where this is all headed.


#2229

Very informative and helpful post. Your should NOT keep them coming

Edit: added the quote:


#2231

Thanks, ZC…

Much appreciated…


#2232

@Mrmags @ZC93 keep it civil, personal attacks against other users are not needed to get points across.

Remember: debate the ideas don’t make it personal.

Pro-ASIC, Anti-ASIC, neutral, all opinions are open for discussion. https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/faq


#2234

Question is, is it useful continuing to debate about it? I mean is the ZCash Company listening to it? I guess not.


#2235

Good luck with that attitude. Why are you even here? Do you even understand what this is about? Or are you just interested in promoting your views? Anyone who does not conform to your views needs to be attacked?

Ive met people like that before, usually does not end well for them, so again, good luck with that.