Let’s talk about ASIC mining

My personal opinion is USD 150-200, in that range…

Sia community analysis of blockchain data and mining pools:

The oldest block we can track of Antpool is #132204, dated on November 17th, what means that Bitmain mined Siacoins in secret for exactly 2 months… In total, 550 blocks were mined in secret during the 2 months previous to the Antminer A3 announcement, representing around 85 million Siacoins in block rewards… they could have recovered the whole cost of the ASIC development just by secret mining during those 2 months. This, of course, on top of the $74 million in sales profit just from the first 2 batches

Here is an except from the link above… sound familiar ?

"I remember those days as the most stressing experience I have lived on the blockchain space. Being a moderator of the official Discord, I had to deal with the confrontation of the community while I had to deal with my own feelings but keeping them aside. The once peaceful and collaborative community stopped talking about Terabytes of data stored, file contracts and new features, abandoning itself for weeks to a situation akin to a civil war, including letters, confusing polls, sues and death threats. To fork or not to fork? Either choice would tear apart the community. Either choice the community would lose members and contributors. Some left it already even after the final decision. My anxiety, ATH. In the end it was decided not to fork. “”

Interesting read but some points that i miss or make me not believe the whole story:

  • Both, Bitmain and Baikal, released their Asics at the same time, Innosilicon a bit later. There is no comparison btw these how each of them affected the hashrate, minining pools, private/secret mining, blocks. While the author tries to describe one piece of the puzzle, how does it fit if we do not know what when how the other 2 pieces of the puzzles did.

  • We shouldn’t forget that Bitmain has released it’s A3 about 6 months earlier than Sia their own Obelisk miner. causing Obelisk mostly millions of wasted invetments. I don’t take the independent third-party and unbiased statment of the author, a SIA dev, moderator and Sia stats page owner. Independent means something else in my book.

Other than that i think he is absolutly right with the problem of unknown mining pools which is indeed a real big concern.

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Beat me too it again. Read this while I was on break at work, was going to post this, was an interesting read and some great forensic analysis of what the reality is, at least in regards to SIA. What I would love to see is @zooko ask Jihan about it in a follow up discussion and give him the opportunity to explain/refute/prove otherwise.

what is going on with the diff

Current Zcash Difficulty: 8,340,327.39482897
1013a (edt)

seeing 30% swings is bananas

I guess auto switching asics & gpus that switch btw. ZEC, ZEN, ZCL, BCI and BTCP, up to what’s more profitable at the moment. Just only a guess of course.

I remember root saying at one time that gpu miners jump to the more profitable coin. Made zcash network unsecure. And with Asic miners here that would not happen. And no I am not going to go thru over 4250 post to find his post.

@chucky732 I never said it wouldn’t happen, just that there were less options for ASIC miners to switch and that when coins hard fork, those choices are slowly removed. ASICs give less flexibility.

Additionally the scale of switching should be much less with ASICs because there are GPU mining platforms that are used to auto-switch based on profitability en-masse. ASICs don’t do that, it’s all manual. One Z9 mini user trying to mine ZEN for a day is different than 10,000 gpu miners auto switching to mine ETH all at once on a weekly basis.

Just think there is over 11,700,000 gpu’s mining eth. And I think you can auto switch to more profitable coin with Asic on MPH. But not sure.

There are pools that switch coins (same algo) which work just fine with ASICs so a lot of hash could be sloshing around - its not just an issue for GPU mining.

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This could be correct, but usually when people take the greater risk with buying as ASIC they have a specific coin in mind. People buying Z9 mini’s are, on the whole, interested in Zcash, not Equihash.

I do see sha256 S9’s being used to switch between BCH/BTC, but the hashrate is so high that it doesn’t matter for security on those coins.

Of course it’s not, but it’s less. The nature of an Asic is just that it’s bound to the algo and it’s coins/tokens on it, which of course should be way less than somethning that is able to switch through 79 algos and 1800 coins.

As well we should have in mind that right now it’s some mixed mining here. We even do not know who when why is switching, all we see is the swings. I’am only aware of 1 asic mining pool that can switch for the Z9 mini, Miningpoolhub. Just checked and it has about 10-15% of the hashpower at most, so i doubt it’s the responsible one for that, but for sure some part is from there.

It’s pure speculating right now what causes the swings on ZEC, could be as well an asic producer turning off batches for shipping, no idea, seriously.

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well all this is telling me is there isn’t a difference in gpu or asic. asic was just a generational leap forward.

i said i was selling my gpus, well im done. right before the 1180s hit so great timing.

now i wtb 30 z9m!

I remember telling you that I was on another forum and there where these 10 guys talking about switch back an forth between coins on the same algo Equihash. Those guys but a bunch of Z9 mini’s. So saying that Z9 mini owners only bought there Z9 to mine Zcash is wrong. Both sides of the line are in for profit!

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Perhaps - although miners tend to be interested in a return on their mining rather than loyalty to a specific coin, the same applies to both ASIC & GPU miners when auto-switching pools are available.

Just looked at MPH, right now their stats page claims 47M pointed at ZEC but that could (and does) switch to any Equihash coin any time. With more ASIC hash that problem will get bigger and quickly.

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That’s what FPGA’s are for.

Actually it’s reverse, the more hashpower gets on, the less big swings we will see.

GPU’s too. Out of curiousity i do some tests on my home PC with 3x1080ti and on my awesome miner i left them today on profit mining on 7 auto-switch pools. So far, about 10 hours testing, it has switched me through 11 algos and 24 different coins …