Let’s talk about ASIC mining

The point isn’t to dissuade conversation one way or another, it’s to keep the threads on the primary points that the threads are about. This thread is 99% GPU vs ASIC so throwing PoS into the mix is confusing.

The other thread is more in line with your point of “where should Zcash go from here?” PoS? PoW? Etc… as Zooko postulates about in the opening post and has been the primary discussion in that thread.

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Is there point in discussing GPU vs ASIC anymore. Zcash isnt going back to GPU mining unfortunately, they have made it very clear.

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Its nice you are trying to keep the stuff seperate, but alot of this thread has to do with mining in general.

Yes some people were talking about PoS, myself included, but it was to compare to ASIC mining, this thead is called Let’s talk about ASIC mining.

If we cant talk about other forms of mining in this ASIC thread, how can we compare them fairly? Yes some of the last few posts were discussing PoS mining, but it was in comparison and showing PoW ASIC mining vs PoS.

When we are comparing the PoS system to the PoW system AKA ASIC MINING, tell me how its off topic? Was it talking about PoS…yes, is there another thread about PoS, yes. Does that mean EVERYTHING about PoS should be in that ONE thread, no, not at all.

Just because someone has a post open already about a subject doesnt mean everything about that subject belongs in that other post.

How unfair is this. GPU vs ASIC ok, PoS vs ASIC not ok. Talking about PoS vs ASIC is just as important as GPU vs ASIC.

Just because you are easily confused, doesnt mean its not a beneficial discussion about ASICs. GPUs have been knocked out, some people are talking about other things now.

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Absolutly agree with @Lisfin .

If it can’t be discussed together in this thread than the next best option would be closing this thread and open a new thread “Future of ZEC mining Asic/GPU/POS/Other” where we again can discuss fair about this all not being divided in different groups on different topics…

In case there is 0 intention or interest by Zcash going POS in the next <24 months than of course a POS discussion compared to Asics doesn’t make any sense. Just say it and we all can stop talking about POS vs Asics.

First of all I’m not at all confused, so don’t try to imply that I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Second of all you are making a leap that Zcash will never go back to GPUs which is not confirmed anywhere by Zcash Company nor Zcash Foundation. Simply because you have written off GPUs doesn’t mean that everyone has. There are still open Grant possibilities from the Zcash Foundation regarding funding ProgPOW which if it is presented as requested (tested and vetting) by the Zcash Foundation still has a possibility of being merged by Zcash Company.

As I said in my earlier post, this thread has been 90% about hardware comparisons and arguments pertaining to GPUs vs ASICs which some users may still be interested in discussing, and that’s what this thread is for.

This is exactly what the other thread is for, PoS vs PoW systems.

If you wish to discuss “other things now” than what this thread has primarily been about, thats fine too. Feel free to discuss further in that PoS thread or create a new one. The Code of Conduct specifically mentions that derailing topics is poor forum etiquette and should be avoided.

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@lisfin @boxalex It’s probably better to break out the PoS discussion into its own topic, especially if there is tabular data that can be updated, like List of all coins/projects on Equihash (Asic restistant/not resistant) so that it doesn’t get lost in this mega-thread.

The other thread is about PoS and nothing about ASIC mining or PoW. This thread is about ASIC mining. How can we talk about ASIC mining vs PoS if you force us into a PoS thread that has nothing to do about PoW or ASIC mining.

If we start talking about ASICs/PoW vs PoS in that thread…we would once again be derailing the topic by bringing up ASICs and PoW in that topic, that has nothing to do with them. So what post are we suppose to talk about it in? Now you have me confused…

The PoS conversations were in comparison of ASIC mining. Is this not the thread to talk about ASIC mining? Can we not mention other things that affect ASIC mining in this topic, or did I miss read the title and it says ASICs vs GPU? PoS is a valid argument against ASICs, can we not use that in this topic or discuss the pro and cons of the system because another thread already talks about it?

EDIT: Ok, guess you can just change the title of the other post to PoS vs PoW Discussion and now im wrong…

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I agree with @bitcartel the PoS vs PoW discussion deserves it’s own thread rather than being buried in this one.

So, if you wish to discuss PoS vs PoW (ASICs or GPU) then it goes in that other thread.

If you wish to discuss ASICs vs GPUs then this thread is more appropriate.

You changed the title of the other post to Zooko talking about PoS. PoS vs PoW Discussion, Might as well change this one to Let’s talk about ASIC mining vs GPUs only.

This is my opinion, but this a terrible way to moderate, forcing what you think the topic should be about, when clearly we were still talking about ASICs vs PoS. We were not even off topic. ASIC vs POS is a valid debate, just like GPU vs ASIC.

But you have the powers, you make the choice, I just want it to be known, I think you are overstepping a little bit right here. But I think you do a great job with alot of stuff so keep up the great work.

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Tabular Data is an argument and deserves it’s own thread, however, a fast made uncomplete list (i’am working on a better one) isn’t really something that gets updated or i would have made an independed topic about it like i did with the equihash coins.

I think we are at most 5 people that have readed ALL the posts in this thread, and just be sure, none other by now will go through 5000 posts, lol.

I still think the asic discussion is closely related as much to POS as to GPU and in my opinion comparing them, discussing and talking about them in a friendly fair manner shouldn’t be a big deal.

We are just dividing here groups and opinions and seperating them from each other in my opinion. One group will continue to discuss some asic issues here, the other on the other topic, no matter both should exchange ideas, comparisons, experience, whatever…

In these 5000 posts there have been so much unrelated things being discussed, be it RF, Monero, other coins, Bitcoin Gold, IPO’s, can’t even remember all unrelated stuff, lol. Damn, POS even fits into asic resistance.

Me personally isn’t going that far, but someone could argue that this splitting is an attempt to divide groups that are asking for a change and moving away from asics. In my opinion POS supporters and GPU anti-asic resistance supporters have more in common tha pro asic and pro gpu, but that’s just my opinion.

Not much we can do as active forum members, but this will leave a bad taste as it’s not a needed step at all and it’s the first time i’am not happy with a forum decision.

I’am getting confused, why was autotunafish’s post (re)moved to the POS discussion?

Here we go, a post about a new POW algorithm decreasing the asic advantage gets moved to the POS topic … where is the logic behind that? That’s what i call confusion now …

MTP - Zcoin’s New Proof-of-Work Algorithm

I’ve been participating in this thread from day one and have read just about every post, go back and read the first 4,000 posts and tell me what it’s primarily about, it’s ASICs vs GPUs and why one is better than the other. So I feel it’s appropriate to keep it on its primary topic.

Bitcartel (the creator of this thread) also felt that the PoS discussion should be broken away from the primary discussion in this thread and is the one who flagged it for Moderation.

If you wish to discuss more about Moderating Policies and Procedures there is a thread for that too.

Thanks

You are correct, I did move that post by mistake. I will move it back.

I haven’t read this yet


Ethereum developers seriously discussing switching to progPoW as Constantinople Fork is delayed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYSLEwT5iRs

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The ASIC vs GPU war is not over yet.

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Do you guys know the story of 2 wolves ?
An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.

“It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”

Well Zcash has been feeding the evil wolf (ASICS) atm.

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It is more than likly dead for ZCash. I just dont see Zcash switching back to GPUs anytime soon. Even if they do it right now, its probly to late already. Why on earth would they drop almost ALL the hash power they have right now, in HOPES that GPU miners will come back and secure the network.

If forking was too much of a risk a few months ago, the risk has increased exponentially now that all the GPUs are gone.

As a GPU miner, the bridge has been burned for me. Unless Zcash becomes MUCH more profitable than other coins, I doubt I will ever mine it again. The team let down all the GPU miners.

How long before a new ASIC comes out on the new Zcash algo, and the devs are to busy with other upgrades again. ASIC resistance is evidently a much lower priority to them than it is to me, im better off with coins who backup what they say, aka ASIC RESISTANT

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I still stand by what I said when this topic first came up, ASICs are not good for decentralization. Let’s talk about ASIC mining

My hope is that as big releases like Sapling come out (and free up the focus on the protocol) that the Developers will have time to re-visit the subject. I would love Ethereum to adopt ProgPOW just to show that it works and to show the Zcash team it’s worth looking at.

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me too hoping that sapling was the main argument for not taking any action.
asics not only difficult to get, but imho problem is that producer aka seller of this devices always trying to squeeze maximum from maximum markets. That include price\hashrate pumps, dumps, decreasing\increasing hardware price up to 3x depending on the situation in crypto… Im not saying that its not natural for business, im saying that gpu producers and dealers tend not to involve so much, which in my very humble opinion makes the whole thing more stable, fair and predictable compared to asics.

we have to discuss an elephant in the room.
how exactly to modify algo for GPU’s?
what are the possibility of bitmain learning a lesson, and developing asic for 144_5, for secret use?