Let’s talk about ASIC mining

Doesn’t he like his Asic’s anymore.

Zooko or anyone from the company (and pratically every miner in this community) never stated they embrace ASIC or “like” ASIC.

The only official statement was: “first sapling, then we’ll think about”
Guess what? A couple of hours before sapling activation, zooko wrote an extended post to all of us stating they’ll work actively on a solution that will suit everyone (even for those who invested in ASIC).

+++ Respect

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As you in another thread you bought tens off ASIC that costs 5000$ each.
For 99.9999% off people spending 100 000$ on some web site is not “easy” and instead off supporting Zcash price you give your all that money to chines company.
So people have to invest lot off money in new hardware and all that money must come from somewhere ,money is not create from nothing and will come from Zcash price beause you spend 100 000$ on chines ASIC but you will take that 100 000$ at least you hope so from Zcash price for ROI…so price goes down and difficultly up …ones profitability slows down and ASIC sales slow down Bitmain will rump up production but for them self because they need profit all the time so most off mining will be done by them and not other miners…It was same on every ASIC coin .

Also why ASIC miners are very aggressive because they desperately need ROI…difficultly on ASIC coin rise exponentially and overnight their expensive ASIC could be electronic junk so they must take at least money from coin that they paid from ASIC …its life or dead 2 them.
GPU miners really dont care that much because price off GPU does not depend off coin.

I don’t think this is really correct. The gpu prices are actually absolutly driven by crypto mining demand the last 12 months. Just as a sidenote. All hardware POW mining prices are related to crypto mining by now, no difference at all as long as hardware is envolved, hence both aren’t reasonable anymore.

again, Alex, you’re saying: gpu prices are actually absolutly driven by crypto mining demand the last 12 months.

this is pure manipulation. pure lie.

gpu prices are set by gpu producers. producers are not driven by situation in crypto.

however there was one month when GPU were running low in stock. So resellers, to control demand, put bigger prices themselves.

While Bitmain adapt their price every month, nvidia did not thru golden rush period, only in last weeks of december 2017 they announced price rise on each chip. But it was preparation for new platform.

If you are true, and GPU producers driven only by situation in crypto - how come 2080ti cost 1100 Eur? While crypto is down? While Bitmain lowered price from 1999 to 745 usd???

You are as always out of reality.
Bold statements, with google knowledge.

It’s not a manipulation, it’s real life experience we see with the gpu prices the last 12 months, let alone Asics here which i even don’t doubt.

And actually i don’t care if the producer or the reseller sets higher prices, all i care is how much does it cost to get my hands on.

Untill November 2017 i easy got my hands on 1080ti’s without any problem on fair prices. From End Novemenber up to April 2018 i had NO chance to buy whatever 1080ti at all, again let alone the overprized under hand prices. And right now the price still didn’t correc themself, still at least 50% over normal used bevor crypto hype gpu prizes. These are facts, not manipulation, no dreaming, just personal experience as i have enough 1080ti’s to see it my own.

Calling this “out of reality” is just another primitive approach in favour of your GPU investment, that’s the real point you hide actively or you would have allready replied to several of my questions how much gpu’s you have, but seems it’s a secret.

Back to topic. Now what do we have?

  • Asics that get lowered in price and will never ROI from here.
  • GPU’s that get higher in price and again will never ROI from here.

My point is absolutly valid, both, Asic and GPU are driven by the crypto demand.

  • Higher Asic demand higher prices, lower asic demand and later batches, lower prices
  • High GPU demand, higher gpu prices.

Only difference is that the asic prices seem to adjust faster. The gpu prices should be way lower right now as well, but seems it happens slower here, mostly because the producers/resellers/whoever as well think last year bullish run will happen again. IF not we will see in some months lower gpu prices all over again, i bet on this one even.

Long story short, no matter what hardware is used, we private miners are always fu*ked to say it clear, hence it makes no sense at all by now, easy and simple as that. Sorry for you, but your gpu’s won’t ROI either as it seems.

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Alex, im not replying on multiple questions of yours, you have right to assume its all big secret, but for me fact is this is GPU vs ASIC thread.
Not “look at my setup” thread.
If you really want to know feel free to ask privately.

Referring to “Long story short, no matter what hardware is used, we private miners are always fu*ked to say it clear”

No, friend, you’re wrong. It matters what hardware is used, and GPU is sweet spot.

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Your post never make any sense and all driven by your interest.

When 1080ti was making 5$ a day after electricity i bought here for 800 euros new…2080ti now makes 50 cents and cost 1000 euros in same store.

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This also very misleading, sure the two best models of GPU for sale at the time were hard to get or overpriced for 2 months. There was still many GPUs for sale available, were they the fastest and newest models however no. There was alternative choices, people just wanted the best and fastest, and were willing to pay for it.

The other reason supply on them was low is because Nvidia already switched over to making the new cards at the time, they were no longer making the 10 series in the quantities they were previously. They did not want to get stuck with huge supply of older cards.

Just a quick search on newegg shows many of the 2000 series available. Just because the Ti model is sold out, does not make it limited supply. You should know this always happens at launch with new cards, it will fix itself in a month or two.

Once again, complaining about short supply of a single model of card on launch day. This has been happening for 20+ years, and its not just for GPUs that have problems on launch day, give them a month or two. There are still many other cards available to purchase, your putting limits on yourself, not the hardware.

EDIT: Also, you got them the same day. Not so limited it seems. I drove around all day today and know how many ASICs were in stock at the local computer stores I went to. I will give you only one guess.

I agree, there is constraints on both, however to compare the two and say they are the same is just out right lies. GPUs are 100 times more available if not more so. Let me look again, hmm yep all Equihash ASICs still sold out months after release.

You said I just want to see ASIC people lose their money, which is untrue. However you come on here and tell lie after lie about GPUs, I think its you who want all the GPU people to lose their money, atleast I dont have to lie to support my claims.

Like you who ordered 10+ ASICs in the first or second batch, pushed out all the GPU miners, and now hope to ROI before they stop making money. I cant even order a Equihash asic right now, they are all sold out. How did you not take advantage of the supply constraint?

EDIT: Why was this post hidden? What was offensive, abusive, or a violation of our community guidelines. Just because you disagree, does not make it wrong. Im sorry you have to hide my content because your arguments are so weak and cant stand up to debate.

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You’ve shown that you want to see ASIC miners lose money with your comments. Instead of sticking to the technical aspects of this discussion, you continuously choose to make personal attacks and call me a liar without any basis whatsoever.

This is false. Innosilicon has had the A9’s in stock continuously since mid-July with the exception of only a few days. Look, you can order one right now: http://www.innosilicon.com/html/a9-miner/index.html

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Also looking at the website more, You can make the purchase now, but it wont SHIP till Nov.15th, it ships from China so add another 2weeks or more to get it. is this truely being AVAILABLE?. I can say I have a time machine for sale, supplies limited, if ship date comes and we are out of stock, will refund money. Does not mean they are available.

If they run out of units, they will refund your money 7 days AFTER the ship date. So you can be waiting almost a whole month with your $3,000 usd locked up in a miner that you might not even get. Why does this almost sound like a scam?

Can you say its available when the item wont even ship for 2 weeks IF at all, and takes atleast another 2-4 weeks to ship it to you. All the while, you have your 3k usd locked up overseas for a whole month if they do run out of units.

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That’s exactly what it means, and they’ve been shipping out batches consistently for months.

Yes, I received 1 unit on October 10th and it took about a week to ship and clear customs.

Not in Canada at least. Retail stores were completely sold out for months at a time, even during the Spring 2017 run up. All mid to high end GPUs were sold out on Newegg Canada for a period during December and January, and when they finally came back in stock prices were $1700 CAD for a 1080ti and $650 CAD for an RX 580. The only cards that were available in Canada during this time were 1050ti’s/1050’s and RX 460’s, which aren’t exactly good cards for mining. You can call me a liar all you want, but it doesn’t make it true.

To clarify, I never said I got any cards on launch day, I said it was extremely difficult to find them in stock. You just assumed I got them on launch day because it suits your argument. I should have made myself clear that I wasn’t able to get any cards on launch day or anywhere near it. I purchased my cards months after when they finally arrived in retail stores in Canada (long after they were available in other countries). There’s only 1 major computer retailer in Canada called Canada Computers, and I drove hundreds of kilometres to different cities around Ontario to buy whatever stock they had.

I don’t “feel” like you’re personally attacking me, you attack me personally in almost every post you make. Here’s a perfect example, asking me why I invested in ASICs and implying I did it out of greed. You don’t consider that I spent months arguing against ASICs and even travelled to Zcon0 where I advocated for an immediate anti-ASIC fork. I even spoke directly to @zooko and @daira about changing the algorithm to Ethash because of the limited efficiency gains of ASICs and because it would take much less time to implement vs. potentially adopting a new algorithm. Unfortunately the consensus was pro-ASIC so I made the hard decision to not be left behind.

I’m a self-described Zcash maximalist and I believe the project and community are worth supporting no matter what. I’m fully in favour of a change to ZEC mining as suggested by Zooko despite the fact that I’m an ASIC miner because I believe the community is capable of finding a compromise. @Lisfin I hope we can put this ASIC vs. GPU feud to rest, as it does nothing but harm to the community. I’m sorry if I ever made it seem like I was against GPU mining, but that’s 100% not the case. I only ever meant to engage in a fair discussion of the technical merits and pitfalls of both options, and to share my personal experiences for the benefit of others.

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I find it hard to belive you can have a fair discussion when you are STILL buying ASICs, and already have 10 currently. When you are 25K+ invested into ASICs, anything that might fork them off is bad.

Everything you have said for the last few months is how great ASICs are, and how crappy GPUs are. So yes it does seem like you are against GPU miners. ASIC miners seem to see GPUs as a threat to their invesment.

GPUs are better for the network in most cases. If the algo needs to change for any reason, the GPU miners would not care and can adapt with changes. However with ASICs, if the algo needs even a small tweek that will brick ASICs, every current miner will most likely be against it. Even if the change is better for everyone else.

I have yet to see many valid reasons of why ASICs are so much better in their current state. In many ways, they are a huge step back for the network. But most people just see more hash = better.

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I tried to bury the hatchet and yet you still resort to ad hominem attacks.

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Yes, if my PC breaks down I try to use my knowledge as best I can to work the problem.
So your telling people instead of trying to use problem solving skills that they should of learned when they where kids and if they are mining usually that means they are good at that in the first place. But Your telling them to go spend there hard earned money and waste their profits that they are trying to save to get there cpu fixed or updated to accept new programming parameters… Why should I pay someone my hard earned money when I should be able to do it myself???
Why should I rely on other people to solve my problems? That’s just money out of my pocket… Plus I will never gain knowledge on how to solve problems in my life. I’ll always have to rely on other people. NO THANKS.
I love learning and enjoy the challenges it throws at you but I don’t have time to tinker with a GPU that barely puts out an ROI then 1 ASIC miner.
Wanna buy my GPUs?

Are you telling people there investment should not ROI? And also not ROI in a timely fashion??? I hope not bc you will lose all your investors if that is the case… who in there right mind doesn’t want there investment to ROI???
With GPUs and ASICS the basic only difference is the noise and setup. You still have to cool them down and that’s always a pain, plus your spending the same amount of money to keep them cool. So your telling me you rather have a slow hashing rig where your spending roughly the same amount of money in electric as with the ASIC but have the return lower just bc you want GPU mining bc it’s more “verisitile”…
How long have GPUs been around? Well since the start of computers… So in the realm of things yes GPUs are analog technology. They are slow and inefficient for mining and don’t forget COSTLY. I run a business to turn a profit not to take on more and more debt every month just to wait around for the price to go back up.
Welcome to the Digital Age boxalex. I don’t know how old you are but your living the “start” of the Digital technological age. What do you think blockchain technology is??? Or basically anything on a decentralized network… How do you not see that??? Do you not know what the code for bitcoin looks like??? That’s pure digital technology plus it’s on a decentralized network so it’s what make it totally secure. And just about all the other coins take from that code. otherwise it will be analog and centralized which is what we have now over the internet and it’s very easy to break that code as time has told. Anything on a decentralized network does have to do with blockchain technology. You are sadly mistaken and misinformed if you don’t think so.
Who says since you fork that you need to change the algorithm for mining??? Of course I want my equipment to last as long as possible you do to with your GPUs…
It’s really not about GPUs vs ASICs it’s about who has the faster equipment and who can turn a profit faster when it comes to mining… Someone will always find a cheaper faster way to do whatever it is your doing to mine. So your basically fighting a losing battle. In the end it’s all about the Benjamin’s!!! So Welcome to the world of Globalism. In which blockchain technology is leading the way!

The reason being more people see hash = better is bc it’s ALL ABOUT the BENJAMIN’S.
And if you tell the people who invested money in you that it’s not all about MONEY… Well let’s just say me and all your big investors will leave your project and invest our money elsewhere where we believe our investment is better managed by people who care to see there project grow so they can help reward the people who helped to get them there. and then will sit back and watch while your coin tanks bc of your stupidity.
I once was invested into Ethereum. Not ANYMORE LOL. Do you remember what the price and market cap was before July, now look at it… and if zcash wants to pull the same bs then will just drop them like 3rd period French and invest our money into another coins vision and watch zcash tank.
We are so early in this market that most of the coins here will not last. So in 5yrs anything’s possible. Zcash could one day go bye bye. Please don’t think I hope not. I do like the coins vision and hope it progresses to the top in the near future!

You didn’t invest anything in Zcash but only in your own business. Nobody in POW mining is a direct investor in a given project, simple as that. Now if it would be a POS coin and you buy a stake you have a direct investment into the project.
And how arrogant is that to think only miners “invest” into a given project?

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Exactly, ASIC miners try to prove they invested directly into Zcash, but forget to mention they can mine any of the other Equihash coins with those machines with them, and they probably do switch around to whichever makes them more profits at given time.

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