i guess i took a right decision not saying anything anymore in this thread, it is going nowhere. you guys keep repeating the same thing everyday hoping one of you will ‘win’ . i will back to my cave and wait for any result from foundation, goodluck everyone
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People need to get paid man . How can they justify the money if no work is done
Hi deviel141,
I am not a moderator, I am not trying to backseat moderate the thread.
Thank you for your posting this, I have been concerned that the high levels of passion and bickering might have been making people not want to comment in this thread.
I am really sorry you feel this way, but I completely understand.
Not directly aimed at deviel141, but to the thread in general:
I am just really disheartened by members, especially new ones, feeling that they can not express their ideas or opinions with out getting drowned out in flames or high emotion responses. This thread is not about winning hearts and minds, it is for discussion!
I understand the value of repeating previous comments and conclusions in a thread this big. No one can realistically be expected to read the whole thing anymore.
People new to this conversation are bound to ask questions or repeat talking points that have already been discussed to some level or another. This means people relaying the most up to date information in a concise manner, whilst dispelling simple myths is really valuable.
semantic arguments are very out of place here. Everyone has very different levels of English reading/writing skill (due to it not being a lot of people first language - but I think we all agree just by the fact we are involved in crypo, non of us are stupid.)
Can we assume people are coming from a place of good faith, please? like asking for clarification on points you are unsure of rather than assuming the worst.
Like I said I am not a moderator/dev/foundation. I am just person who is trying to hear as many different points as possible and get my voice heard (which it has been).
I will probably start another thread pulling the most relevant info out of here, so people can just catch up by reading 40 - 50 posts then come comment about it here. (this might take me a while)
cheers,
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Appreciate the levelheadedness! Please tell me when you do create a summary post… we can close this thread and link to that one for future discussion. 
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just making it more easy to see the content of the link posted:
Antiminer Z9 Mini Shipments: An Experiment in Radical Transparency
MAY 26, 2018 / NISHANT SHARMA / 0 COMMENTS
With multiple thriving cryptocurrencies supported by diverse development roadmaps within each, Bitmain strongly believes that the permissionless internet of money promises a more secure future. Zcash is one such cryptocurrency that we hope to see thrive and help deliver on this promise.
Bitmain supports those members of the Zcash community who believe that security, reliability, and accessibility are among the highest-order values in a cryptocurrency network. We also believe that dedicated, ASIC-based mining systems reinforce these values. This is especially evident given recent news about the potential security dangers when crypto networks are not secured by large amounts of dedicated and dependable mining power.
Given that, we want to make sure we do our best to allow Zcash community members to predict and plan for when increased hash rate comes online.
We have therefore decided to carry out the shipments and QA of all Antminer Z9 Mini units in the most transparent fashion possible. To this end, we will tweet real-time updates from our QA teams and shipping warehouse via our official account, using the hashtag #Z9QA. As has always been our policy, all orders will be shipped on a first-paid-first-shipped basis. We will also share the time of payments (though not the identity or location of the buyer) for the orders that are about to be shipped.
This is something we have never done before but we continue to experiment with the best ways to work and communicate with the communities in which we operate.
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Wow, such care, much security, reliability, and accessibility
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Personal evaluation
I think it’s a result of their probing, Bitmain realizes zcash is potentially more valuable than the other cryptocurrencies they make miners for (for many reasons)
They know whether or not zcash will fork is all pending analysis and there’s not really anything they can do about that, which isn’t what was planned, it really only makes sense for them to have assumed the same outcome for the same strategy but now theres different potentials because the Zcash community is really different
I have some darker theories but I believe this makes the most sense, assuming we don’t fork and they (their products) get to mine actual zcash too, it would be much more business conducive to not carry such negative stigma
Idk
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I personally think it is a bit more complicated and not just one reason, but many, so i see it as a bundle:
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no doubt that with this they want to improve their image along many miners, projects, coins, …
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i think that they as well try to get new customers that way. By letting them see how much miners get shipped it could be interesting for some gpu miners, or other said, they are targeting gpu miners as potential Z9 buyers.
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Eventually they realized (not sure about this one, maybe to much asked to be honest) that selling endless batches of Miners is not the best to do, neither for their image, nor for the miner, nor for anybody.
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They try that way to be a bit more transparent with the projects/coins itself by showing numbers. I mean it makes a difference if a given project/coin thinks that 100.000 asics arrive or if it’s shown/proofen that it’s only 1.000 (just as an example).
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They are forced by now with raising competiten to be more popular, userfriendly (in the meaning of asic buyers). The absolute monopolist status is gone in my opinion, even more with the announced 7nm Bitcoin miner by competitors.
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Too many rumours, wrong numbers, guesses. Understandable when there are no numbers at all anywhere.
There are for sure more possible reasons, but imo these as a bundle make as well sense. I mean these guys are not stupid at all and for sure they have something in mind when annoucing and testing this.
Just my guess, as allways, speculation and someone could be totally wrong.
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Inference based entirely on history would lead me to believe something less implied by the words in the tweet but assuming its understood, Zcash forward thinking vs more traditional coduct, then, assuming Bitmains business savvy, they would follow suit
it’s all pretty simple… zcash has sold out to bitmain already… fact is they could change the algo in 2 minutes if they wanted to and they flat out refuse to do this…
my numbers may be off but it will take less than 100,000 asic units to remove all GPU miners from the system - at this point Bitmain gains full control of Zcash as they will be running their own mining operations… you can bet for every 1 they sell they have 1 or 2 in their own facilities… they will be pushing the price on Zcash far beyond what most people think over the next 2-3 years well over $10,000 usd
let’s say it takes 50,000 asics to replace the current GPU hash rate… returning roughly 50% per month profit… the next 50,000 asics will reduce to 25%… add another 150,000 asics and they’re down to 10% per month… at this point they will probably limit supply and as the price moves up say to $15,000 over the next 3 years this gives them around 7 million asics to sell and still maintain around 10% monthly profit… 7 million asics at 2k each is 14 billion profit… and now we know why they are doing it… to be fair they will probably only sell 2m or 3m to public, the rest they will keep for themselves to limit supply and help push the price up…
bitmain is very smart and so is zcash for going with asic to be honest… why wouldn’t zcash want to increase in value by 50x over the next few years? asic miners like to hodl and will help push price more than gpu miners to be brutally honest…
anyone complaining should simply sell their GPU rig and put in an order with Bitmain, pretty simple really…
i mean if you wait too long Ethereum will go to POS and then there will be say 80 terahash of ethash power needing a new home… do you really think monero and bitcoin gold can support that? never lol… the GPU mining return will reduce to 3% a month if lucky… barely enough to cover power costs for many countries… many GPU miners will sell their equipment for up to 80% less than what they paid as they drop out of crypto mining…
don’t get me wrong guys… i am PRO gpu… but you have to be real and look at the actual state of the market especially when ethereum goes pos early 2019… gpu mining will officially be dead at that point… the only saving grace i can see is if the consumer markets actually get up and running next year… if so maybe we see 5% return on GPU’s but highly doubt any more than that ever again…
plus add the fact bitmain will continue building asics for ethash and any other algo the cryptos change to, it’s really a matter of time before crypto is fully asic… hats off to the ones who are trying to fight it i applaud them
fact is zcash is not changing the algo and likely never will… the only reason they would change back to GPU is if the Asic guys do not push the price up to their projections… they are very good at pushing the price where they want it to go and with 1.5b market cap it’s pretty damn easy for them to absorb any upset gpu hodlers who decide to sell their tokens, and push the price a lot higher… my projection, 100% asic by end of year and will stay on asic forever…
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Then why they lie to people…why Zcash did not start as ASIC coin in first place…why it start as GPY coin and ASIC resistant and lied that they will change also if something change in future.
They lie to people that it will be decentralized coin and many people invested that money based on that …and now mining will be limited 2 few people.
If Zcash started as ASIC it would never got comunity and gain popularity…it would just be in endless list off ASIC coin that pumped one day and then forget until delisted from echanges.
Some thing ASIC are good because Bitmain will push it…Bitmain has already zilion coins …they main focus is their coin call Bitcoin Cash.
You really thing Bitmain will invest in coin that is anonymous and Bitmain is from China …yes sure…they will only look how 2 squeeze as much money as possible from zcash.
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Since major equihash coins announced hardfork’s (ZEC not among them) Bitmain lost 1/2 possible buyers Z9 mini. So from now on Bitmain and ZEC best friends forever (one of them need buyers, second one do not mind)
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There are more than 18 projects/coins on equihash, just because Bitcoin Gold, the sinking Titanic, and Bitcoin Private fork still leaves more than 16 projecs to mine.
While i agree that Bitcoin Private hurts a bit forking away i think nobody really counted on Bitcoin Gold, who the hell wants to be a passanger on the Titanic?
ZEN/BTG/BTCP/ZCL will hardfork, their summary market cap approximately equal ZEC, other equihash coins can be neglected.
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I thought Zencash has a similar stance like zcash in the Asic issue. First researching and than deciding what to do. Can you provide me with a link where the fork or asic resistant changes are announced for Zencash?
But even in case they fork away, only 2 promosing projects in it, BCPT and ZEN. ZCL and BTG are sinking ships with or without whatever.
False. Zen cash is following zcash lead.
Zcl has no dev team. How can they hard fork.
Btg and btp…who cares. Crap project
“The current potential threat to decentralization posed by a single company producing an ASIC miner is something that the community feels very strongly about. The ZenCash development team will work through the process to create a Hard Fork upgrade to the Equihash algorithm in the short term to address the threat.”
And point in their (ZEN/BTG/BTCP/ZCL) market cap vs zec
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That’s the statement we are all aware about, stating they will research the possibilities. But that’s one thing. A descision to fork another thing. So again, where is the announcement that they will fork??
Here are some unreadable Egyptian hieroglyphs
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