I seen nothing interesting about this proposal. It’s nothing but self-serving rent seeking by people who are hoping to profit by selling ASICs for a new algorithm (since they are too incompetent to beat Bitmain at Equihash). It’s worth noting that Obelisk has still not delivered a product, almost a year after collecting payments for them.
The obvious solution is to tweak the Equihash parameters.
That’s exactly the problem we all and me made so far, only calculating the available Equihash hashrate on the market place, not taking into account that as soon as the price rises way more hashrate gets shifted there immediatly.
Hence i made the post that i found a flaw in that https://www.crypto51.app/ list. They just as well only use the right now available hashrate, which could be totally different if there is enough demand 5 minutes later…
“as soon,if, when” - it’s all theory, in practice you have same % pump on each main algo
of course it’s theory as the whole list on https://www.crypto51.app/ is theory… That doesn’t mean a theory can not have an important flaw …
Of course, there is always the option to deny a flaw in a theory, Verge is a good example for that, lol.
upps, and no, or i wouldn’t have seen the other day 75 MH/s on equihash/Nicehash but today only 45 MH/s. Wherever the demand is the hashrate will flow in immediatly…
NOt many GPUs are shifting because NVIDIA and AMD are totally different in mining different coin …AMD suck in equicash and lyra2rev but is great in cryptonight and ethhash.
You will not see AMD jumping to Lyra2rev or equicash .
Also its this 51% equicash attack were when ASIC came out so its 99% Bitmain…on VErge which is still GPY coin on Lyra2rev was not 51% attack.
Let’s come back to the point. You can’t 51% attack ZEC now (with GPU) and you will not be able later with ASIC’s (i hope). So all this “security concerns” is pointless.
Bitmain can 51% attack ALL ASIC coin (except bitcoin) RIGHT NOW…(maybe even bitcoin) …its only Bitmain good will that he is not doing it but as seen on equicash coins that sad they will fork Bitmain can do it if you angry them…
In few months if algo dont change Bitmain will easily have 80% off hashrate…they added 100mh in just one day which is 1/4 off all hash rate off Zcash.
I will not be able but Bitmain will be able no problem.
As i wrote some time ago.
Absolute39
Well, it looks like conspiracy theory, but all recent 51% attacks lead us to conclusion, that than more hashrate algorithm has - more it secure. And i know only one company that profits from this situation. I think we could all agree, that Z9’s main target is ZEC. So maybe, maybe, some random guys with Bitmain help try scare us by attacking our younger equihash brothers and convience to enhance net hashrate with ASIC’s. “straightened my tin foil hat”
Now zooko fears 51% attack possibility and vote for ASIC’s. Easy for Bitmain.
Actually it’s increasing to be honest … The unknown pool gets stronger the last days.
But we don’t know who it is exactly. My bet is still on the AsicMiner 40k release, but i’am guessing as much as you guess… Actually you know it, it’s only me guessing 
ASIC mining is essentially a “benevolent 51% attack” with Bitmain in charge.
Redefining the pick-and-shovel play…
The entry cost of an Obelisk Launchpad engagement is about $10 million. This gets you a unique proof of work algorithm, an open source ASIC design for that algorithm, and a full first batch of 22nm machines that can be distributed to the community.
https://obelisk.tech/launchpad.html
Obelisk’s preferred margin is 20% of the hashrate. We do everything at cost, then we keep some of the hashrate for ourselves. Other forms of profit-taking are negotiable, we don’t have to follow that model if that’s not what is preferred. Obelisk does not provide the $10mm, the developers (or investors for the developers) do. Everybody is comfortable with something different, and we are willing to be flexible based on that.
Ballot Proposal: Embracing Simple PoW and ASICs by acityinohio · Pull Request #21 · ZcashFoundation/Elections · GitHub
Damn, the 10M$ in my initial post have been only guessed but seem to fit perfectly.
It was clear from beginning that this would not be done for free, what i did not necessary await is that they want to keep 20% of the hashrate.
Actually i can’t see any benefit for Zcash in that proposal/offer other than financing the next monopolist on a given algo.
In such case it would make more sense to move even to the Tensority Algo for free which for some reason has both, Asics and GPU’s on it, without paying some 10M$ investement …
The part that they can’t do is “…and then start using their equipment to mine another coin”, unless there is another coin that is at least as valuable to mine, that uses that PoW.
No, that would not prevent these attacks. The attacker would just have to run the attack for 100 blocks instead of 10 blocks. And all the legitimate users would be paying the cost of waiting that much longer for their transactions to be final, even though it wasn’t making the attacks impossible.
No, that’s not what I meant. Let me quote the parts of my message about this:
I agree that this makes the “1h Attack Cost” column on https://www.crypto51.app/ highly variable/unreliable. It would be cool if it would show the total value of mining reward over a 1 hour period (i.e. the New Issuance column from https://onchainfx.com/v/UsZtA6, but divided by 24).
The New Issuance (1 hour) is a lower bound on the real cost to rent the hashrate. (Modulo presumably transient market inefficiencies…)
Anybody know the devs behind https://www.crypto51.app ?
Actually thinking again about that list at https://www.crypto51.app
we have to take another factor into account we did not thought so far about:
The Block reward the Attacker receives even if the attack is unsuccessfull he would receive block rewards reducing the cost of an attack imo…
Heres the pics from the safecoin discord
Heres the comments verbatim
Inside is 3 boards with 3 cores each probably gpu cores and the remaining space on the board is vram
The software says it’s 12 cores so probably 12 gpu equivalent
91db on full spin
But 72 dB right now
It hasn’t cranked up to max anymore
And it’s 30 celcius
Yea it’s industrial fan on it haha
72 decibels – that’s way too loud to use at home. These ASICs are going to hurt decentralization because hobbyists are going to be forced out.
And despite what some people claim, most miners right now are hobbyists. You can look at the blockfinders on any GPU mining pool. It’s almost always people with small setups at home.
It’s so frustrating that people don’t think about this. I can’t run a couple 70db miners in my small home and contribute to network hashrate. Even if an ASIC like the Z9 mini is now only ~$850 and “accessible to the hobbyist,” there’s no way I’m going to be running these with a spouse and roommate to think about.
And I’m fortunate enough to be in a small single-family home. What if I was in an apartment, or a computer science major in a dorm, or a high schooler at home still? I’ve seen bright young kids still in Jr. High and High School running rigs at home, and I’ve seen crypto fans running rigs in dorms, but an ASIC? Good luck! They’ll be looking elsewhere in the crypto space when they’re figuring out where to direct their passion.
The number of people who can play the ASIC game is so small, no wonder everyone talks about “centralization” and consolidation of hashing power.
