And what difference it makes its on “open” …Bitmain has 51% hashrate on almost all ASIC coins.
Just look how hashrate oscillate on Zcash …almost 30% off network goes online out off nowhere and not on any pool and then after few hours go offline
Also Zcash did not even try to battle ASIC ,not even move the finger…instead it done everything to welcome it.
Only serious coin for me is Monero …they were ready for ASIC and combat it perfectly with out any single issue…and Monero is profitable minable and with GPU and CPU.
Found it on this a link to a pdf https://t.co/aUhuNS86d9?amp=1
The other link in that pdf is to this thread (lets talk about asic mining) which perfectly exemplifies the point made in the paper
" This is even before you consider the fact that many of the most vocal members of this “community” decision may in fact be miners, who are financially incentivized to lobby for hash functions they can either obtain edges on or have some expertise with. In the long run, my prediction is that this will likely serve as a centralization vector supporting economies of scale, prone to the wonderful world of regulatory capture, leading to many hours wasted on debates, distracting from real issues, and exhausting a coin’s capacity to make important and actually relevant governance choices."
I would if I thought there was any chance of Zcash forking to being ASIC resistant but seeing how they gave up as soon as ASICs were announced, i dont think there is. But keep convincing yourself ASICs are the best invention ever made guys, i dont care.
I don’t think even one person ever suggested that ASICs were “the best invention ever made”, but there are those of us who want to keep mining ZEC not matter what hardware is required. The decision was made not to fork, so we all had to decide between giving up mining ZEC or buying ASICs. For many the decision was easy because mining is one of the simplest ways to directly participate in the growth of the network.
What does growth of the network mean to you ? How do you define it? Hash speeds are arbitrary, new devices are made each 3 month that make old ones irrelevant. So we cant measure it in Sols.
If not Sols then electricity used to create 1 Zcash ? It used to be a lot more on GPU only network, even tho the Hashrate was lower.
If not power, how about number of people mining it? If we measure network growth by number of people involved in mining it, then again GPU mining wins big time. A LOT more people can mine with their GPU’s than with Specialized hardware where manufacturers hold a monopoly, raise prices, and often you find them all sold out.
If not by number of people mining it then tell me, how do you define growth of the network ?
Network hashrate, which is usually how the Bitcoin network is measured when talking about the security aspects of PoW.
Network hashrate isn’t arbitrary at all, it’s directly proportional to the number of devices on the network and the individual hashrates of said devices.
This may be true for other coins, or in secret for ZEC, but so far Equihash ASICs haven’t been made obsolete as far as we know. The A9 Zmaster has been available for 5 months and is still the most efficient miner available.
Electricity is not a good way to measure growth since it’s an impossible metric to measure given that we don’t know the full composition the network. Network hashrate is inherently calculable, electricity usage isn’t.
The number of people mining would be a great metric, but again we can’t measure this with any certainty.
I agree with you about accessibility, since there are literally hundreds of thousands of people who could mine with their GPUs, but this doesn’t necessarily result in a more equitable coin distribution. Let me explain why that could be the case:
Assuming you have 1,000,000 GPUs mining an ASIC resistant coin, and the mean hashrate of all the GPU’s is 500 sol/s, that gives you 500M sol/s (slightly more than ZEC’s hashrate before ASICs). A hobby miner is likely to have 1 GPU or about 500 sol/s, so they’ll mine ~0.0001% of the coins. In contrast, assume an ASIC coin has an equivalent to 125,000 Z9 minis at 16000 sol/s, which gives you 2G sol/s (approximately ZEC’s current hashrate). A hobby miner is likely to have 1 Z9 mini or 16000 sol/s, so they’ll mine ~0.0008% of the coins. Since the cost of a Z9 mini is about the same as the cost of a rig with a single 1070ti, the ASIC option results in the hobby miner earning ~8x the number of coins vs. buying a GPU rig.
There are farms with 100,000+ GPUs, make no mistake about it. They’re able to negotiate huge volume discounts, pre-binned GPUs, early shipments (or first shipments), and specialized mining GPUs that don’t include all the unnecessary display ports. These farms are what killed hobby mining, not ASICs.
You mean like what happened with GPUs last year? Most GPUs were either sold out or selling for twice the original MSRP towards the end of the year. GPUs can still be extremely difficult to find in stock even without a mining craze. Right now the 2080ti is in short supply and most retailers in Canada are sold out. Even back in 2016 when the RX 480 launched it was extremely difficult to find them in stock. Ordering online limited you to 2 cards per person, so I actually drove around Ontario to half a dozen Canada Computer’s locations to just buy 12 RX 480’s. No matter what the hardware, GPU or ASIC, there are always going to be supply constraints and there will always be people who use those constraints to their advantage.
Literally every statement of mine that you just quoted are facts, not opinions. Feel free to keep making this discussion personal and posting meme’s though…
Right now zcash diff is 40M.
With this diff one z9 mini will produce 10.5 ZEC coins in ONE year.
Electricity needed for year of mining equals ~2.5 ZEC (at 0.15usd per kwh). Result = 8 ZEC coins profit for 12 months of mining.
z9 mini with psu, taxes and delivery will be little over 1000 usd. 8 zec coins right now on exchange (124usd) = 992 usd.
Questions:
will z9mini survive 1 year of mining?
what will be z9mini value after 1 year ?
does z9 mini have any other use than mining existing equihash algo?
will difficulty go constantly up to 100M?
what is the point of buying z9mini , waiting, mining, considering you can buy same amount of zcash for less ?
Cheap 1070 GPU rig with 5-10M diff will give roughly the same reward as z9 mini does right now. So it can be attractive. But you will not have hardware with limited lifespan optimized only for PUMPING one crypto algorythm. This race that asic creates is the MAIN PROBLEM imo.
Asic astronomically increases inflation in POW.
When coin is GPU mined, we can see stability. No big volumes trying to escape constantly pushing exchange rates down.
As to advantage of mining GPU vs gaming GPU - mining gpu is 10-20% less expensive, but it has 80% less warranty, and 40-50% less resale value. It is pure gamble, which probably gives little advantage.
discounts for big orders for big farms. discount start from 1000+ GPU units. before that prices are leveled. Discounts are not great either, and me thinks that 1000+ asics are bought with discount as well
twice mspr price. was for one month only, around New Year…
yes this are all small problems.
they are really tiny, if you compare to BItmain.
hardware price speculation from hardware producer, all the way, from 700 to 1999 on same device, depending on situation.
hashrate speculation from hardware producer.
number of sold units speculation from hardware producer.
Zooko or anyone from the company (and pratically every miner in this community) never stated they embrace ASIC or “like” ASIC.
The only official statement was: “first sapling, then we’ll think about”
Guess what? A couple of hours before sapling activation, zooko wrote an extended post to all of us stating they’ll work actively on a solution that will suit everyone (even for those who invested in ASIC).
As you in another thread you bought tens off ASIC that costs 5000$ each.
For 99.9999% off people spending 100 000$ on some web site is not “easy” and instead off supporting Zcash price you give your all that money to chines company.
So people have to invest lot off money in new hardware and all that money must come from somewhere ,money is not create from nothing and will come from Zcash price beause you spend 100 000$ on chines ASIC but you will take that 100 000$ at least you hope so from Zcash price for ROI…so price goes down and difficultly up …ones profitability slows down and ASIC sales slow down Bitmain will rump up production but for them self because they need profit all the time so most off mining will be done by them and not other miners…It was same on every ASIC coin .
