Let’s talk about ASIC mining


#5544

We are buying more Z9 Minis for our mining operation from eBay and other swiss auction platforms, the prices are tempting and since we run the miners in our regular datacenter, electricity costs are negligible.


#5545

how much do you give for single Z9 minis?


#5546

Just sent you a PM…


#5547

#5548

smart move +++


I’m selling my z9 minis. All are overclockable (now @ 623M).
@ 610 CHF with shipping in switzerland

(4 units total)


#5549

That remains to be seen.


#5550

I took the time to read the whole article, which is from 2015.

While than back mostly true, all this doesn’t apply anymore in Dec. 2018, a lot of things changed.

The Liquidity issue may have been present when comparing POW with POS in 2015, but this is no more the case for simple and logical reasons.

Let’s begin with the definition of “Liquidity”:

  1. A measure of the extent to which a person or organization has cash to meet immediate and short-term obligations, or assets that can be quickly converted to do this.
  2. Accounting: The ability of current assets to meet current liabilities.
  3. Investing: The ability to quickly convert an investment portfolio to cash with little or no loss in value.
  • First of all, in 2015, everybody and his grandmother was mining with profit, that’s no longer the case…
  • Second, in 2015, the profit was x times higher than the electricity usage, hence there was indeed liquidity.
  • Third, POS in 2015 wasn’t yet popular, neither adopted and even less used. By now this has changed, for good reasons…
  • By now, with POW we don’t have any liquidity at all. To put it short, you can’t have “real” liquidity until you reach ROI. Today no hardware investment will ROI. Not only this, while you can’t ROI you have to pay daily for electricity, means again, you don’t have real liquidity on your investment.

Now compared to todays POS under the current circumstances:

  • At any time i can sell or bring the FULL amount in POS coins to an exchange or use. You can’t do that with POW anymore as simple you don’t have anything until you ROI-ed, which as said, won’t happen the next years if ever.
  • With POS compared to POW you don’t have any costs to run and cover. Means again, more available direct and immediatly liquidity.
  • About lost liquidity as you mention it. This applies fully now for POW for all the reasons mentioned. Let’s take BTC. You mine let’s say 1 BTC and pay for this 1.2 BTC due all the costs. That’s no more liquidity but illiquidity
  • There is more i could write about liquidity compared today btw. POS and POW but it would get too long. I hope everybody get’s an idea why POW is no longer more liquid than POS… It’s just obvious that the 2015 article doesn’t hold anymore in 2018/2019…

#5551

Just Two ASIC Bitcoin Mining Rigs Remain Profitable in Current Markets

ASIC miners tailored for SHA-256-based cryptocurrencies, in order of profitability, Dec. 11. Source: ASICMinerValue.com

link to article


#5552

Maybe I’m not factoring in something?


#5553

The above are sha256

But on both charts I think it’s wroth noting ASICminer’s hardware seems like it probably doesn’t exist


#5554

The above are sha256

I didn’t notice that, thanks.

ASICminer’s hardware seems like it probably doesn’t exist

Can you clarify what you mean?


#5555

I’ve seen no credible reports of real humans running ASICminer hardware (despite its incredible efficiency!). The company releases faceless promo videos, and sketchy vloggers are the only ppl who seem to own their hardware.


#5556

I agree, even Voskcoin - youtube reviewer who got Zeon 180k, said it was sketchy and stopped working after few days, and the company that sent it to him, acted very suspiciously.


#5557

That’s so shady it hurts.


#5558

They rented hashpower en that rented hashpower drove the miner :clown_face:

Was indeed the Zeon hahaha


#5559

That is actually a great ponzi idea for a company… anyone in? (jk)

The chips of the zeon seemed legit, but 100% would not suggest to buy from those guys.


#5560

ASIC is made to mine and attack, GPU not…


#5561

Asic also made as door stop! Not GPU. :smiley:


#5562

Actually it’s not only a door stop, but it’s also a space heater (which generates profit for me) - I like this “all in one” approach ^^


#5563

About 51% and other attacks.

While not directly related to ZEC and equihash but mostly to X11 and Scrypt we see weekly successfull attacks on projects on these algos.

Smaller coins are successfully attacked weekly, just some examples are Einsteinium, Pink, Florin, Linda and many others this year.

I think this happens and will happen in future in close correlation btw. profitability of hardware on given algos. Means if given hardware on a given algo is no more profitable the more an attack on given coins is likely to happen.

Especially on Asic algos, but will mostly happen as well on GPU algos once they get unprofitable, a possible checkpoint will be ETH constaninople and casper upgrades where we will see if this scenario will come true or not.

Overall effect i see when such attacks happen:

  • most of these currently smaller coins that successfully get attacked use one of the 2 options, emergency change to another algo or emergency switching to POS.

  • this of course has it’s effect on the remaining coins on a given algo. The hashrate of the switching coins of course gets distributed along the remaining coins on the given algo, which of course is driving down profitability even more for these and the hardware used.

  • this again will give more impulsion to attack the next weak coin on the algo.

Just some thoughts on the many successfully attacks that happen lately on the by now unprofitable asic algos Scrypt and X11 … More to follow of course, no doubt here.