Permanent forking is a huge disadvantage and security issue. Nobody will seriously use a permanent forking chain.
That’s like saying : nobody will use any software that has to be updated regularly…
If a coin never soft-forks, that’s a bad sign actually.
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Have something to back that claim up? I know it “was” a potential issue with RingCT…but Zcash doesn’t use RingCT. Zcash forks every so often, and other coins have forked from Zcash. No security risks implied or realized. I believe your statement to be categorically false.
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Software updates are necessary of course, that’s what the Zcash team is doing all the time.
However, there is a huge difference between updating the node-software and forking the chain.
Each time you change the protocol you’re risking to introduce unforeseen effects which are harder/maybe impossible to resolve afterwards.
That’s a huge issue for a currency.
I will try predict the future. If fork doesn’t happen, by the end of 2018 there will be no GPU hashpower mining ZEC due inefficiency, only Z9 mini, maxi, XXL and so on. GPU community will go to other coins like BTG and ZCL. But at this moment ALL ZCash community is GPU miners.Therefore ZCashCo lose 95% of folks support, and how i see @zooko doesn’t care about it at all, that in the end speaks only about the material interest of ZCashCo. They care only about money (to be honest, we all do)
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Where is your evidence for this?
Monero forked recently and they don’t seem to have any problems. If anything, the project seems stronger now due to an overwhelmingly positive reception by the community.
Ethereum also has regular hard forks, and it’s the second largest cryptocurrency in the world.
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I’m trying to follow this thread, which I read with interest, but that is becoming very long.
Some thoughts, in almost-random order:
- nobody from ZCashCo (nor from the ZCash Foundation) asked officially to the community if the current PoW should be changed in order to become ASIC-resistant. I mean, no poll has been posted or announced as of now. Not a good thing, IMO.
- it seems that posts from ZCashCo members & devs are less and less frequent recently. In particular, members that were for ASIC-resistance did not post anything in the last days. I hope that this is only due to a soon-to-be-released official statement by ZCashCo about the possible upcoming PoW change.
- Personally, I’m totally against ASICs for many reasons that have been already expressed by other users way better than I can write.
- I think that as of today many miners are using recent GPUs with an extended quantity of memory, so I don’t really understand why a Equihash algo with so low memory requirements has been chosen. I read some old posts where an upgrade of the Equihash params was considered/almost planned after the initial release of ZCash. Which decisions have been taken about this?
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If GPU coins would change algo every 6 months than Bitmain would stop making ASICs.
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Only changes for one or two times are too enough to distract them. Also instead of random changes they can change it to make it more costly to develop ASIC. Like increasing memory requirements. You can get inspiration from Cryptonight-heavy.
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I may be talking as only one individual but I want to share my thoughts.
I solely invested into GPUs because I believed in and supported two coins, zcash is one of them.
Being against centralization of ASICs manufacturers and fair distribution was the most catch point for me to be in.
BTW, I live in a country with very high electricity prices so making tones of money or being greedy was not my situation at all.
Due to prices drop I started losing money due to electricity high prices however I did not stop mining operation because I was believing in zcash and the intrinsic value of zcash coming out of the cost of electricity and hardware required to make them.
I knew that when ASIC comes every thing will be screwed up.
Like you will see new hardware with exceptionally 10x speed and low electricity consumptions.
And current hardware that cost 2K bucks will be in trash a few months later when new hardware come up and so on.
Also I knew the dirty game bitmain plays that they mine first to make the most out of their ASICs then they dump it so I never thought of investing into ASICs.
So in short my main believe was in the commitment of zcash Co. of being ASIC resistant because from the very beginning.
Currently I feel very betrayed because my investment losses currently are not because of coin value losses nor because electricity costs it is because ASICs with 10x speed are allowed to be in.
Buying ASICs also are killer for me because I am almost sure that by the time Z9 “Mini” come by, the “Big boy” will be running on the network so the whole process will be a complete rip off by bitmain like we see on many other ASICs, they are only the one who will make money.
This can be changed when many ASIC manufacturers are in the game and on many countries but this is too early to be true so until this happen I will not be in.
So you left the little miners like me with option to be ripped off by bitmain all the way or just get out of the mining and leave it to bitmain.
I am talking about my self only but I believe that there are many supporters who are in my situation. You simple betrayed us by offering to embrace ASICs so do you think we can support zcash anymore?
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No Mika,
People are seriously angry. Commitments were made and are being white washed away and Zooko is trying to now state that it was never their intention, or their position. But fortunately someone did the homework, and made a video showing that it was ALWAYS the case, and proved posts were changed AFTER Zooko made his post on the 3rd.
See Cryptomined’s video. He did some great work capturing and recording this for the community:
It’s not about greed. It is about keeping your word. Just about everyone in this community took this project at it word that it was a safe bastion from ASIC and would remain so. I, and obviously many others, are not going to roll over just because it isn’t convenient for Zooko. There shouldn’t even be a discussion on this to be honest. If the ZcashCo can change their mind and break commitments now…what else can they unilaterally decide to change? Why would anyone support a project that does this? No, they have an obligation to uphold ASIC resistance. It’s time to deliver on that obligation and stop this waffling nonsense.
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It appears the ZcashCo as contracts with third parties and as been aware of Equihash ASIC development and usage since about September last year, these ASIC’s will be supplied to big players and the limit of 1 Bitmain is selling to individuals for end of life products is completely fraudulent and is not widely available world wide. People forget about Zcash it appears to be a sophisticated scam. Most the features like sapling and others stuff; if the research was already done should not take more the 6 months to implement thoroughly it as been two years. REPEAT it is a SCAM to make money from founders reward.
May be to early to suggest that but could be there a hard fork and network split that lead to two zcash?
You are talking about bitcoin miners, do not you? Look at other coins miners
You mean bitmain will always have the upper hand in terms of efficiency and hashrate right? Seems to me like they will be making 99% of the profit while all of the miners make 1%
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Sounds like you got stuck in the past
What are you doing here @bentusi ?
Try to find some sheeps for your church ?
Yes. Comments that competitors will come is just wishful dreaming. They have a stranglehold on the ASIC market and crush anyone who really does try to challenge them. Their behavior is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the Chinese government. So onward they will go, killing competition, and extracting as much of the mining reward for themselves as they possible can get away with.
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Disagree, it wasn’t very profitable for awhile, but the coin price has gone up 2.5X. What you were seeing is miners mining at cost or in the hole with the assumption that the price would return to higher and higher still. It’s a great strategy if you can A) afford to do it and B) you don’t have ASIC secretly exploding your difficulty on the network. The basic concept is the easiest time to mine coins is when the price is depressed as some of the hash power will move somewhere else, lowering the difficulty, and allowing miners to accumulate coins a littler faster than before. This gain helps offset the lean times and keep them going. Sometimes it works out well, sometimes you end up burning yourself. It’s always a gamble.
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That’s just it. We do know EXACTLY who we are dealing with and the majority of us are not going to get into bed with the very force that is trying to overtake and control every coin that comes into it’s sites. Crypto is supposed to take away from centralized deep pockets and put the control back into the hands of “Joe Average Guy”. Getting in bed with Bitmain for any reason, or any company that does business the way they do is contrary to that very purpose.
I don’t much care how much money they have. I’m not impressed, and I won’t be intimidated by it. You can flash all the money you want around, make all the claims you want, make all the threats you want. Bad Actors like Bitmain are just a fork away from being paper weights…and they need to understand they aren’t inevitable, it can only happen if “we” let it happen.
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