# Shielded Support for Ledger Hardware Wallets (NanoS+, NanoX) **URL:** \ **Category:** Applications\ **Created:** [February 28, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113 "2023-02-28T01:16:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![ambimorph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/ambimorph/32/26890_2.png) [@ambimorph](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/ambimorph)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/169 "2023-10-05T23:01:45Z")
I don’t think that’s correct. As @aquietinvestor quoted earlier, the text that needs to be signed off on is > As an App developer, you assume total responsibility and risks for your use of the Service and any damage that your application may cause to third parties or to Ledger. This responsibility includes, but is not limited to, all the necessary steps to maintain the continuity of the availability and the performance of the App you have developed and submitted to the Service. You shall, at all times and at your own cost, regularly test and update the App you have developed in order for your App to be fully functional with the latest Ledger updates and plugins, as well as, mitigate all risks and incidents that may affect your App, or the use of your App by any third party. > By submitting the App to the Service, you warrant that your App will not cause any fault or malfunction in any software, firmware, hardware or network and information system, nor shall introduce any viruses or vulnerabilities onto the Services. You warrant that the App will operate in accordance with Ledger and user expectations and that the maintenance of your App will be of satisfactory quality and conform to the requirements to function with the Service, Ledger software, firmware and hardware." ---
**Author:** ![hanh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/hanh/32/27853_2.png) [@hanh](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/hanh)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/170 "2023-10-05T23:11:22Z")
Hmm … Thanks for quoting this text. However, what is the part that contradicts what I said? ---
**Author:** ![Dodger](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/dodger/32/3021_2.png) [@Dodger](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Dodger)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/171 "2023-10-09T18:58:19Z")
ZF and ZCG met with Zondax today to discuss potential a potential path forward. Zondax indicated that they would not be willing to take responsibility for maintaining and bugfixing an app developed by a third party. We discussed leveraging the work that Zondax has already done to submit an app with support for Sapling shielded transactions that meets Ledger’s requirements, and would be backwards compatible with the existing Ledger Live app. This would make it possible for _desktop_ Zcash wallets like Zingo and Ywallet to add support for storing transparent and Sapling shielded ZEC on Ledger devices (subject to the necessary integration work being done). With the new app approved, the next step would be to look at adding support for Sapling shielded transactions to Ledger Live, and investigate whether the same app can enable support for mobile wallets to sign transparent and Sapling Zcash transactions over a Bluetooth connection (there is a known issue where the Bluetooth connection to a Ledger device can timeout if signing a transaction takes too long; we do not know whether this will impact Zcash transactions). Potential future support for Orchard (and ZSAs) is dependent on resolving any potential licensing conflicts. Ledger requires that any code changes submitted to Ledger Live are [MIT licensed](https://developers.ledger.com/docs/coin/general-process/) but the Orchard code was released under the BOSL license. The next step is to draft a plan and meet with Ledger to get their input. We will update the community when we have something concrete to report. ---
**Author:** ![zkcroc](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/zkcroc/32/26962_2.png) [@zkcroc](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/zkcroc)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 10:47am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/172 "2023-10-10T10:47:12Z")
How frustrating… 6 months down the drain ---
**Author:** ![aquietinvestor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/aquietinvestor/32/34528_2.png) [@aquietinvestor](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/aquietinvestor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/174 "2023-10-10T21:02:46Z")
Please see below from ZCG’s Oct 2 meeting minutes. Pasting here to ensure all recent information is contained in this thread. > [@Zcash Community Grants Meeting Minutes: October 2, 2023](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/zcash-community-grants-meeting-minutes-october-2-2023/45779/1): > > Ledger > > - Jason posted on the forum [a statement from ZCG](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/109) that summarizes where things stand with Ledger so that the community is up to date. > - Brian said that he understood and agreed with Jason’s post. He also said that he was unsure about the idea of reaching out to other organizations and said he saw that Zooko responded to that thread but is not sure if any organizations can take over Hanh’s work, specifically. Brian said moving forward with Zondax would be the most efficient way for Ledger to be satisfied with this proposal. Lastly, he said he was disappointed that it did not work out with Hanh, as the ZF community trusted and supported Hanh’s past work and wished Ledger’s blockchain-based organization requirement was clearer upfront. > - Jason said he would like to have a follow-up call with Ledger, Jack, and the committee soon to inform Ledger that ZCG will not be moving forward with Hahn, and to let them know what ZCG’s plans are. He also said that the committee should meet with Zondax to understand whether they are willing to use some of Hanh’s code, which has been audited by Taylor. Jason also said that, apart from engaging with Zondax, the committee should actively reach out to companies like Equilibrium and Chainsafe to see if they’re able to take over this project and support it long-term. All options should be explored so we can deliver this app to the community in a timely manner. > - Jack reminded the committee that Zondax has a functioning Ledger app that supports transparent and Sapling transactions, and circled back to why Zondax had proposed productionizing their fork of the Zecwallet Lite wallet, which was because there needed to be a compatible wallet for Ledger to test the new app being submitted but attempts to partner with both Zecwallet and Ywallet had been unsuccessful. > - Jason asked if Nighthawk could be used as a wallet, and Jack replied that it could not be an option because NH is a mobile wallet but we need a desktop wallet for Ledger to test with. > - Jack emphasized that the most significant win from a Leger integration would be support for shielded ZEC in Ledger Live, and for the committee to be very aware of all the requirements and the integration’s limitations, such as the risk that it may not be possible to add support for Orchard into Ledger Live due to licensing conflicts. > - Jason said that he has a proposal inspired by a conversation he had with Dan: > - Because ZF has a history of working with Zondax and funding previous Ledger work, would ZF be willing to serve as a “project manager” for this project and manage the relationship since they are better suited than ZCG, and then split the cost 50/50 with ZCG? One reason is that ZCG has already funded Hanh’s work, but Ledger may not utilize his code. > - Jack replied that ZF has already worked with and funded all of Zondax’s work to date, which resulted in a Ledger app that could not be submitted because it had no wallet integration. > - Jason gave several reasons why ZCG chose to go with Hanh instead of Zondax; however, no one anticipated Ledger wouldn’t accept Hanh’s app submission. > - Brian agreed with Jason and added that whatever needed to be done to move this project forward, he favors it because the community wants and needs hardware wallet support. > > - Jack suggested that ZCG’s best next step is to meet with Zondax and discuss the situation with them. He also recommended that expectations and the scope of the project be crystal clear, as there has been a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding to date. Once those expectations are made, Jack suggested discussing the proposed plan with Ledger and ensuring they agree. > - GGuy proposed that ZCG send a follow-up email to Ledger with a status update and await Ledger’s response before scheduling a call with them. The committee agreed. > - Jason asked Jack to contact Zondax to set up a meeting with ZCG and ZF. Jack said he would start an email thread to figure out a time that works for all. > - Jack reemphasized the benefits of Ledger Live integration and the importance of backward compatibility to ensure that people who currently hold ZEC on a Ledger device don’t lose their funds. He also reminded the committee that Ledger will require an audit by one of their two approved audit partners before they will accept an app submission. > - Due to Hanh’s recent post, Dan reminded everyone to ensure Hanh knows his part in this project is officially over. Jason said there is no harm in Hanh trying to find other entities to sponsor him, but that it also does not stop the committee from moving forward with the takeaways from tonight’s meeting. All available options should be explored. ---
**Author:** ![hanh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/hanh/32/27853_2.png) [@hanh](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/hanh)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/175 "2023-10-10T23:10:35Z")
> [@Zcash Community Grants Meeting Minutes: October 2, 2023](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/zcash-community-grants-meeting-minutes-october-2-2023/45779/1): > > Due to Hanh’s recent post, Dan reminded everyone to ensure Hanh knows his part in this project is officially over. Jason said there is no harm in Hanh trying to find other entities to sponsor him, but that it also does not stop the committee from moving forward with the takeaways from tonight’s meeting. All available options should be explored. No point in me looking for an organization then? ---
**Author:** ![kayabaNerve](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/kayabanerve/32/27977_2.png) [@kayabaNerve](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/kayabaNerve)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/176 "2023-10-11T01:28:46Z")
> [@Dodger](#): > > Potential future support for Orchard (and ZSAs) is dependent on resolving any potential licensing conflicts. Ledger requires that any code changes submitted to Ledger Live are [MIT licensed](https://developers.ledger.com/docs/coin/general-process/) but the Orchard code was released under the BOSL license. Apologies if this is throwing fuel on a fire that isn’t present here, yet as an anecdote, when I reviewed integrating Zcash into my work, I also solely considered integrating Sapling due to not being willing to deal with the BOSL. This was due to: 1. My personal opinionation (well voiced and not needing reiteration) 2. The lack of desire to hire a lawyer to answer any ambiguities I had if I did try to work with BOSL (and while I’m sure the ECC would be happy to answer any questions I have, I can’t responsibly accept their answers without a third party’s review) 3. Needing to establish a non-FOSS license amenability policy for my project 4. Not being able to advertise as FOSS I also can comment that my work was originally scoped around Zcash and I dropped Zcash due to the strain of the original series of events. This anecdote may not be cared for, and I’d rather walk away then spend the next month in debate. I don’t feel any need nor desire to insist other people react/respond. That said, if a notable organization (Ledger) is identifying frustrations with BOSL, it may be justifiable to once again discuss licensing policy. If this discussion is being re-opened, I did want my anecdote to be present. Apologies again if the licensing discussion isn’t potentially re-openable, as if so, this is just a reminder of old drama with no actual value. ---
**Author:** ![GGuy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/gguy/32/19036_2.png) [@GGuy](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/GGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/177 "2023-10-11T12:51:02Z")
Hi @hanh, maybe hold off on finding an organisation for now. It has come to our attention that Ledger is unlikely to accept an application from anyone other than ZF (or possibly ECC). We are in discussions with ZF and Zondax to find the best path forward. ---
**Author:** ![dismad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/dismad/32/18432_2.png) [@dismad](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dismad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/178 "2023-10-11T16:45:25Z")
> [@aquietinvestor](#): > > Zcash Community Grants (ZCG) would like to provide the community an update on the status of the Ledger app development for Zcash shielded transactions. At present, we find ourselves at an impasse because we are unable to identify an organization willing to co-apply with Hanh. This circumstance is due to Ledger’s preference for having an organizational entity, and not an individual developer, as a partner for the development and maintenance of the app as well as ongoing support and updates. > [@Zcash Community Grants Meeting Minutes 8/7/23](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/zcash-community-grants-meeting-minutes-8-7-23/45313/2): > > > [@Zcash Community Grants Meeting Minutes 8/7/23](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/zcash-community-grants-meeting-minutes-8-7-23/45313/1): > > > > Hanh informed ZCG that he was unable to publish the ios updates for YWallet to the app store due to a new policy that requires apps to be published by an organization, and not an individual. > > Am I the only one who think this is bs? So much red tape these days… 🙃 First Trezor, then Apple, and now Ledger… The pattern is clear. 🧐 Perhaps all this red tape isn’t by accident. 🌀 ---
**Author:** ![dismad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/dismad/32/18432_2.png) [@dismad](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/dismad)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/180 "2023-10-11T17:07:38Z")
Tbh, the way these companies have been acting, I wouldn’t trust any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Jgx7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@Jgx7](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Jgx7)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/181 "2023-10-11T20:20:15Z")
this is how companies protect their brand and their customers. zcash should learn from them. we should be copying them not criticizing. our brand is weak because we are too loose. we don’t have much if any accountability. their high standards is why customers trust their products. ---
**Author:** ![Dodger](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/dodger/32/3021_2.png) [@Dodger](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Dodger)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 9:39am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/182 "2023-11-03T09:39:12Z")
> [@Dodger](#): > > The next step is to draft a plan and meet with Ledger to get their input. We will update the community when we have something concrete to report. We (ZF) met with Zondax, Ledger and ZCG to discuss how best to move forward, and there was general agreement around the multi-phase approach described above. Zondax is preparing a grant application for phase 1, which will cover: - Updating Zondax’s fork of Zecwallet Lite to support ZIP317 fees - Security audit of the new embedded app by one of Ledger’s approved audit partners - Technical support and maintenance of the embedded app for 12 months - Training and support to other Zcash desktop wallet teams who want to add support for Ledger devices This work will deliver a new embedded Ledger app with support for transparent and Sapling shielded transactions. We hope that this new embedded app will allow Ledger users whose funds are currently “stuck” to unlock their funds. The next step once that app has been accepted and published by Ledger will be to look at updating Ledger Live to support Sapling shielded transactions (we’re referring to this work as phase 1a). Future work includes looking at adding Orchard support and checking whether shielded transactions can be signed using Ledger devices over a Bluetooth connection (for mobile devices). ---
**Author:** ![zerodartz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/zerodartz/32/26722_2.png) [@zerodartz](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/zerodartz)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 10:07am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/183 "2023-11-03T10:07:32Z")
finally some steps. cool, hope all goes smooth. but im still disappointed we had hanh work hard for much funds and dat work not being used now. ---
**Author:** ![hanh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/hanh/32/27853_2.png) [@hanh](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/hanh)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2023, 12:22pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/185 "2023-11-03T12:22:00Z")
What would be the cost associated with this work? ---
**Author:** ![refinance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@refinance](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/refinance)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2023, 3:09am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/187 "2023-11-04T03:09:20Z")
The proposed solution does not appear to be a suitable option for ensuring secure, long-term storage. ---
**Author:** ![pzh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@pzh](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/pzh)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 8:42am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/189 "2023-11-07T08:42:22Z")
Disappointment here too. We have an open source code for Orchard, ready for immediate Ledger integration, and no one at ECC or ZF is able to support it officially ? Wrong priorities at ECC/ZF. ---
**Author:** ![hanh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/hanh/32/27853_2.png) [@hanh](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/hanh)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/191 "2023-11-07T14:38:23Z")
> [@jelly5649](#): > > Any member of the community is free to take this responsibility. The point here is that the current structure makes Ledger feel they have to work with the ECC/ZF and other organizations (including the ZCG) are not legit. So no, not any member of the community can take this responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![hanh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/hanh/32/27853_2.png) [@hanh](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/hanh)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 2:47pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/193 "2023-11-07T14:47:57Z")
Well, maybe I am an idiot but I feel that the ZF/ECC should be able to delegate some critical development to third parties. ---
**Author:** ![hanh](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/hanh/32/27853_2.png) [@hanh](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/hanh)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/195 "2023-11-07T15:07:25Z")
> [@jelly5649](#): > > Right right, they could, but again, it’s their responsibility if something goes wrong. So it’s fair to respect their choice isn’t it? Well, they receive devfund, i.e. money. The question is whether it is part of their job or not. I don’t tell my boss: “hey, that code looks like too much responsibility. I won’t do it. Where is my check?” Though for sure, Ledger is not totally clean either. Do you remember when the Zondax/ZF started? ---
**Author:** ![pkr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/pkr/32/29938_2.png) [@pkr](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/pkr)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113/197 "2023-11-07T15:51:36Z")
> [@jelly5649](#): > > Right right, they could, but again, it’s their responsibility if something goes wrong. So it’s fair to respect their choice isn’t it? Lol. They are literally the ones running the project. ZFND/ECC are both companies. They are running a business. Their business is _supposed_ to ensure that their customers are satisfied with their product. Right now, they aren’t fulfilling their end of the deal. > [@hanh](#): > > I don’t tell my boss: “hey, that code looks like too much responsibility. I won’t do it. Where is my check?” 💯%. People like @Dodger and @zooko have their priorities misaligned and are failing to act as the leaders that they consider themselves to be. [Previous page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/shielded-support-for-ledger-hardware-wallets-nanos-nanox/44113.md?page=10)