This is on the right track, but imagine you’re a content creator. Why would you put content on this Zcash OnlyFans, instead of putting content on the actual OnlyFans? Their time is limited and valuable. And those margins suggest OnlyFans is a platform that is hard to compete with. I suggest reaching out to content creators and ask them to accept Zcash directly.
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that’s basically what im saying. a thick black line needs to be drawn between the core product and edge use cases. the wallet SDK is just the basic wallet that 3rd parties use to actually build wallets with all the bells and whistles. I do think they need a wallet that works. to me the edge use cases would be like an AMP protocol. they are connecting coins to the vendors to enable customers to buy things.
to me the core product is the blockchain and cash. i define cash as a stable coin. Zec would be a used as gas and could still be a private bitcoin. the ultimate edge is a retail store. but it could be another wallet or app like cash/venmo or stripe. then if the market buys into the vision it will price ZEC accordingly.
i agree with the baseball analogy. i refer to it as being an isolationist (ie building a stadium in the middle of no where). the retailers say they want stability. and the people working for wages are sayjng the same thing. even the ZEC developers can’t rely on ZEC as a medium of exchange. and we are building a infrastructure that requires transaction in a fundamentally unstable coin.
i digress. back to the edge. even visa doesn’t try to put the machines in the stores. it’s done by third parties. the edge hardware providers get a fee split based on transaction volume. the model works. the government who created the money doesn’t even try to control every piece in the system.
i’m a huge fan of bringing the cost of
moving money around down. say from 3% to 2%. but in order to create an ecosystem. the circular flow requires some type of gas/transaction fee. free won’t work. the people involved in the ecosystem need to make money from transactions. people can’t depend or rely upon a centralized funding source which in this case are the owners of ZEC. no matter how many ways you try to split up the blockchain reward, it’s centralized and funded by zec holders. that’s not a bad thing. it’s only bad if the money is wasted. and to get the ecosystem working the gas required to fuel the ecosystem needs to be implemented. if people are not willing to pay the gas it only means they don’t see value in the products. that’s valuable feedback to get.
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True, but if you could push the fee down to 5% by foregoing profit and avoiding payment processing fees that would be a huge competitive advantage in terms of monetary savings for creators. Even if you just captured a small fraction of OFs current userbase it would probably be the most successful Zcash user adoption grant ever.
The thing about free markets is that competition forces entities to be so efficient that they can earn a profit and offer more features and benefits at a lower price than those that operate in a world lacking competition can when they sell at cost. it’s counter intuitive; but true over time. no profit = no growth and no creativity. the profit is very important as 1) a mechanism to let creators know if what they are creating is useful and 2) to fund growth. what you should want is competition, not getting rid of profits. competition keeps people honest.
so zec can give away it’s product for free. and it still likely won’t be good enough if the thinking is to not earn a profit. they just won’t get the funding to keep up with the completion at the most basic level. that is what we are experiencing now.
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Why would we need a ZSA?
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Most people don’t want to get paid or store their value in a volatile asset like ZEC.
The big picture number of providers of goods & services who are both technically able, and interested in receiving payment in ZEC is 0.001% generous estimate
Providing them with a ZOnly Fans platform that transacts directly in a dollar (local fiat) equivalent ZSA that could instantly settle into real dollars is a necessary feature. Otherwise the technical, and fear/ volatility about ZEC would make adoption a futile endeavor.
Common people who are working for money as the perceive it need to have direct simple access to their local fiat, or a fiat 1:1 that can be converted with the click of the button. Anything more complex, or further removed from their local fiats, makes too much of a challenge.
As a comedic aside, on the Zonly Fans platform it would be cool to transact in “Zex” (1 ZEC)
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I guess that this assertion is based on anecdotal evidence? I have anecdotal evidence that is consistent with that hypothesis, it’s that many people whose local fiat is historically less stable than ZEC, prefer ZEC. In fact, this is making me wonder if that’s the driving value-proposition of USD… stability?
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It’s true that some government currencies are worse at preserving value than ZEC. But I doubt that Argentinians and Nigerians are major OnlyFans subscribers. I’d wager the vast majority of OnlyFans’s revenue is coming from countries with stable currencies.
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I am not sure where your data on Common People is coming from. Anecdotally, I transact both as a receiver, and sender of ZEC. I know some downstream recipients of the ZEC I have received and subsequently sent to, have themselves purchased goods-and-services for ZEC.
My question is this:
Given that those recipients seem quite capable of making up their own minds about what they want, and given that they are choosing to receive ZEC, why is it that I should spend time on the problem of converting that ZEC to something else?
Perhaps, instead, I should choose to transact with “Common People” who choose for their “Common Reasons” to accept ZEC, and let them decide what to do with it?
I often hear from software architects, and academic cryptographers what potential recipients of ZEC need… how they need to convert to fiat… etc. That contrasts with my direct experience.
Maybe let the users ask for what they need? Maybe depend on folks who want ZEC to figure out how to use it?
Maybe there needs to be more ZEC in places where USD is unavailable? Maybe trying to interact with USD is a mistake? Maybe that’s the wrong economy to grow the “Autonomy Economy” out of?
I don’t hear a lot of people advocating for growing a ZEC-based economy on top of the Yuan? Why such a focus on USD?
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i recently researched a parallel fintech adoption story
Yes. Stability is what its all about for day to day transactions. You might believe people want ZEC. But is a miniscule amount for the use case you propose. When yield bearing risk free stablecoins like the USD, Euro, and others become prevalent (and they will), you are going to find people are going to want them. I have travelled all over the world and people want USD. Its just common sense isn’t it? Average people dont care much about politics. They just want to work and earn money. And the role of money is to capture and maintain the value of someones labor. ZEC has a $400m market cap. More than 80% of ZEC is probably holders. The people who buy ZEC know what it is: private digital gold. My bet is maybe $2m per day if we are lucky is used for your use case.
We should be trying to bring privacy based currencies to everyone. Let people choose. What that means, collateralize it, digitize it. Make it private. To try and force people to use ZEC for privacey based day to day transactions is not working and I dont believe will ever work. Most people dont understand privacy. So why dont they use Bitcoin? My experience says, they want stability and they want to easily conver to fiat. So they dont even want Bitcoin. El Savatore is trying to force everyone to use Bitcoin as you want for ZEC. How is it going even when the government tries to force it?
Focus on USD because its the largest market, and it helps the most people the fastest. But as I said. Whatever people want to use, we should not care. Collaterize it, digitize it. Make it private. No one here is smart enough to know what people want and need. So just go with consensus for now. We know privacey, and not so much about money. So do it all. The Yuan, USD, Euro…But we have to start somewhere and the USD makes most sense.
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I’d like to see a partnership with https://privacy.com/ cc @Beth
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When I say common people I’m doing very broad hand gestures about the population of people who are using predominant mobile or web platforms to interact and transact with each other, using payment services.
My common people would include users of Amazon, Facebook Marketplace (and their credit card & PayPal integration), stuff like Venmo or Cashapp, pay-for-content platforms like OnlyFans or Twitch, et al and including all non-US centric instances of similar platforms
Local fiats are the language that people use to speak about goods & services costs, that’s why it is crucially important not to be trying to force it the other way around. It is impractical for us to be attempting to act as 1-1 recruiters into Zcash, attempting to force people to learn a new language for commerce. We need an application on top of Zcash than does stuff that we already know people want and we should be able to give them demonstrably better/ cheaper/ faster/ more permissionless/ more globally/ more privately.
This. 100% exactly what everyone here should be saying before they go to sleep at night!
We shouldn’t be attempting to know whats best for people, we should be knowing that people are already doing whats best for themselves. So our goal means to be an appeal to their day-to-day, as a notable but simple improvement to exactly what they’re already doing.
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With the infrastructure of Zcash (complete privacy). I always thought it would be great if Zcash came out with another token, backed by gold and silver (ZcashGold and ZcashSilver) also with the possibility of redeeming physical bullion. I think this would help with volatility .
I think it can solve a lot of problems. One great thing about the adult industry and crypto is you get to see how the rules/tyranny will trickle down to “regular” everyday people as they go through it first. The reason they use onlyfans is because that is one of the very few sites where they can cash out and transfer money into their bank accounts.
Many adult workers have their own website and take crypto, but when they try to convert crypto into cash and have it sent to their bank accounts they get denied. Or the bank account gets closed etc. You kind of can see this happening to “regular” people in the short future. Having Zcash backed by gold/silver and being redeemable, you can always cash it in somewhere if you get debanked or whatever. But I don’t expect anyone to like this idea as everyone still thinks ZEC will go to the moon and gold/silver would only slow it down from appreciating in dollars.
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I don’t think there’s a single approach.
I don’t disagree with the goal of providing the killer app/service.
I don’t think that’s mutually exclusive with experimenting with Using zcash as much as possible… these attempts are, if nothing else, extremely enlightening.
I have had a fair amount of success, asking people to accept zcash for goods and services that I require. It’s particularly effective in cases where I am more-or-less a member of a community. This has worked for me, in spite of user-facing zcash apps being historically UX-challenged. I think we can expect an acceleration of that kind of trend, moving forward. We shouldn’t assume that folks have a particularly strong loyalty to fiat… at least anecdotally, in Latin America that’s not the case.
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Regardless of the price of ZEC, or the UX of a wallet (which are both important), we can all always talk to someone about Zcash and the benefits of this technology and privacy. It’s a practice that at least I do now whenever I go to pay on a site.
And that’s working towards wider adoption. We can all do it, anywhere in the world.
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I 100% agree, create new options, and make them available. There’re different approaches to this, and they can all contribute.
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I think that Sex Work for zcash is a big enough topic to merit its own top-level thread. I’ll make one pretty soon unless someone else takes the initiative, and @mentions me to it.
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A recent study indicates 70% - 80% of bitcoin owners do not sell. They are long term holders. How is it possible that the Zcash community has almost the completely opposite understanding of virtually an identical asset where the main difference is privacy which really should or does not alter the store of value attributes of ZEC bs BTC? Why do people here care so much about the fringe edge use cases and not the decentralization of the core blockchain so that people can develop their own edge use cases without permission or having to fork the blockchain?
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