# TREZOR Founder and CTO: RIP Zcash **URL:** \ **Category:** General\ **Created:** [August 18, 2019, 1:41am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553 "2019-08-18T01:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![brian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/brian/32/13927_2.png) [@brian](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/brian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/21 "2019-08-21T22:13:33Z")
They buy ASICs believing promise of no more tax in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![mika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@mika](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/mika)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/22 "2019-08-21T22:24:29Z")
Yes that’s right, however don’t you think the dev fund is a worthwhile investment for miners? If not why? ---
**Author:** ![brian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/brian/32/13927_2.png) [@brian](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/brian)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/23 "2019-08-21T22:25:28Z")
If they like, they can make it. Voluntarily. Big difference from tax. ---
**Author:** ![sonya](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/sonya/32/9518_2.png) [@sonya](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/sonya)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/24 "2019-08-21T22:36:24Z")
> [@brian](#): > > Miners invested in ASIC equipement, where can they go? They can grow up and realize that ROI on capex is never guaranteed. No risk, no reward — and the risks are real. That’s life. However, _if_ we institute a new dev fund, personally I would _prefer_ for miners to be able to ROI on their machines before October 2020. Semi-related note: For a PoW coin to be secure, mining needs to be profitable. But it doesn’t need to have great margins. > [@brian](#): > > Husband hits wife. Can she leave? What about money, children? The difference here is that she is being prevented from leaving. That’s what abusers do; they isolate their victims and make it hard (both emotionally and practically) to escape. Zcash doesn’t do that. It is very easy to stop mining ZEC, sell your ZEC, etc. If someone tries to guilt-trip you about doing so, you can just… ignore them. The situation is entirely different. (You may not be able to cover your losses by selling, but again, that’s what investment _is_ — accepting risk in exchange for the chance to generate alpha.) > [@brian](#): > > Easy to say “opt-in”. Same asTrump, “if you don’t like it, leave” Moving to a new country is orders of magnitude more difficult than exiting ZEC. I don’t think the analogy is fair. > [@brian](#): > > Reality is not simple! Here we fully agree 🙂 > [@brian](#): > > Dev fund is a tax. Redistribute miner reward. Socialism. I don’t understand how a system that is _fully voluntary_ can be compared to socialism. > [@brian](#): > > Free market can provide funding. Business, investors, community. Proof? VC already invest in Zcash company. I’ve been thinking about this also, and you may be right. I made a comment about that here: [Future of Zcash dev funding — megathread / everything in one place - #146 by sonya](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/future-of-zcash-dev-funding-megathread-everything-in-one-place/34063/146) ---
**Author:** ![Shawn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/shawn/32/187_2.png) [@Shawn](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Shawn)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/25 "2019-08-21T22:41:54Z")
> [@brian](#): > > Voluntarily. > > Big difference from tax. If you mine Zcash you do so **voluntarily** , nobody is forcing you to mine. Everyone can see what the code is, if you don’t like the code then you are free to mine another coin. ---
**Author:** ![mika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@mika](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/mika)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/26 "2019-08-21T22:43:15Z")
It would be nice to hear some/more opinions from miners. ---
**Author:** ![boxalex](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/boxalex/32/14872_2.png) [@boxalex](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/boxalex)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/27 "2019-08-21T23:24:14Z")
Agree. I doubt there are still many here in the English section, but maybe you can find some in the china and russian sub-forum here… ---
**Author:** ![kek](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/kek/32/17068_2.png) [@kek](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/kek)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/28 "2019-08-22T00:30:23Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/original/2X/c/ce8b35aea67cb73edb20533aa0256070178df5d8.jpeg) if miners had a huge problem with new devfund - hashrate should be crashing. not happening! ---
**Author:** ![Autotunafish](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/autotunafish/32/7827_2.png) [@Autotunafish](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Autotunafish)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/29 "2019-08-22T00:47:42Z")
Im a hobby miner, you should be able to glean off how I feel about it by reading my proposal I don’t believe you when you say that you invested in zcash mining equipment because you thought the dev fund was going to end soon because A. that’s a negligible cost you really don’t lose that much in doing it and B. there are already ways around it so…if thats your reason you should really research more before investing ---
**Author:** ![brian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/brian/32/13927_2.png) [@brian](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/brian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/30 "2019-08-22T02:02:18Z")
> [@kek](#): > > if miners had a huge problem with new devfund - hashrate should be crashing. not happening! Makes no sense. New dev fund, maybe end of 2020. Why turn off ASIC now? Keep mining, keep selling. As long as there are profits. ---
**Author:** ![brian](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/brian/32/13927_2.png) [@brian](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/brian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 2:04am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/31 "2019-08-22T02:04:36Z")
> [@Shawn](#): > > If you mine Zcash you do so **voluntarily** , nobody is forcing you to mine. Everyone can see what the code is, if you don’t like the code then you are free to mine another coin. What other coin is using **same algo**? If you want new tax, new dev fund, you can **voluntarily** make new coin. ---
**Author:** ![boxalex](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/boxalex/32/14872_2.png) [@boxalex](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/boxalex)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/32 "2019-08-22T07:53:50Z")
> [@kek](#): > > if miners had a huge problem with new devfund - hashrate should be crashing. not happening! This doesn’t make sense. As i made a lot of mining and electricity cost calculations in the past it isn’t working like that. First of all it doesn’t make any sense to turn off the asic 1 year ahead, don’t forget currently all miners are mining and paying a fee that was clear. Nothing changed at the moment and there is no evidience that every new miner or added hardware to the network is allready aware that a new dev fund is planned. Second. The mining hashpower won’t be affected by a new dev fund anyway. All that happens is that miners that currently mine at a minimal or small profit in higher electricity countries and regions get forced out of ZEC mining business, while at the same time these get replaced by miners in low electricity countries as these can with (for example) half of the electricity costs can take a bigger decrease in mining block rewards than these that pay for higher electricity costs. Means the hashrate chart is not representing anything at the moment. > [@Autotunafish](#): > > I don’t believe you when you say that you invested in zcash mining equipment because you thought the dev fund was going to end soon because Let’s be honest made, when we both for example than back bought our Z9 minis (i think we than back bought them nearly at the same time) we haven’t been aware of an extension of the FR or invention of a new dev fund. > [@brian](#): > > What other coin is using **same algo**? There are othe coints that can be mined on the same algo. I made a list (no longer updated) where you can see all coins mineable by asics on equihash. As i don’t mine my own anymore i have no idea if some of them are still profitable or not. > [@List of all coins/projects on Equihash (Asic resistant/not resistant)](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/list-of-all-coins-projects-on-equihash-asic-resistant-not-resistant/29085): > > List of coins on the equihash algo 2018 and their intention about asic resistance: Asic resistant projects/coins on equihash: BitcoinZ / BTCZ =\> algo 144\_5, since June 16th asic resistant again Bitcoin Gold / BTG =\> Fork 1. July, new PoW: Equihash-BTG 144,5 with BTG-specific Personalization LitecoinZ / LTZ =\> Soft Fork (21/22 June), now [n=144, k=5] parameters Safecoin / SAFE =\> forked (19-20 June), 144,5 Zero / ZER … ---
**Author:** ![johnwisdom](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/johnwisdom/32/5836_2.png) [@johnwisdom](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/johnwisdom)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 8:03am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/33 "2019-08-22T08:03:33Z")
> [@kek](#): > > if miners had a huge problem with new devfund - hashrate should be crashing. not happening! Most miners don’t even partecipate with the community. Most miners care about profit. If hashrate is steadly growing it has absolutly nothing to do with any type of interest in the dev fund: don’t be so naive kek! It has to do with new asic available every 3-6 months and the price of such machines going down. Bitcoin has the same growth in hashrate and new asic have been coming out regularly (almost every month) and prices have decrease on these machine. For ethereum you can see hashrate has decrrase with market crash and has been picking up lately due to many gpus being sold for cheap. Mining rigs used to be for sale at thousands and now literally for scraps. If you correlate ethereum hashrate with 1080 ti prices you’ll see a very similar curve. ---
**Author:** ![kek](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/kek/32/17068_2.png) [@kek](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/kek)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 8:36am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553/34 "2019-08-22T08:36:22Z")
if miners don’t like the new fund that will happen - they’d be going elsewhere. this has been going on for over a month now… zcash hashrate will not dip. will continue rising, that’s how life is. [Previous page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/trezor-founder-and-cto-rip-zcash/34553.md?page=1)