# Why don't we see increases in CPU miners? **URL:** \ **Category:** Mining\ **Created:** [December 19, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949 "2016-12-19T19:47:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jeremyf327](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9a28c/32.png) [@jeremyf327](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/jeremyf327)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/1 "2016-12-19T19:47:53Z")
There have been significant increases, obviously, in GPU mining. Why is it that we don’t see anyone working to increase a CPU miner? Is it just not worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth8368](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Stealth8368](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Stealth8368)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/2 "2016-12-19T20:15:36Z")
Yeh no incentive since they are much slower and dev fee earnings would be small,big change from what was promised from beginning and with older generation GPU mining so fast even faster than latest gen cards in some cases this coin is over mined from day one ---
**Author:** ![Zorky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d07c76/32.png) [@Zorky](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Zorky)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/3 "2016-12-19T21:18:07Z")
Take a look at zdash, not over mind and have potential ---
**Author:** ![voxelot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/voxelot/32/571_2.png) [@voxelot](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/voxelot)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/4 "2016-12-19T23:34:11Z")
> [@jeremyf327](#): > > Why is it that we don’t see anyone working to increase a CPU miner? Is it just not worth it? A CPU can’t outperform the parallel processing GPU can provide so there is not a lot of room for improvement. The zcash team has been preparing to change parameter settings or algorithm entirely to prevent the high advantage of GPU and orther specialized mining hardware. Or you can go the way of zorky and jump ship ---
**Author:** ![cryptomined](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptomined/32/3789_2.png) [@cryptomined](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/cryptomined)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/5 "2016-12-19T23:57:07Z")
> [@voxelot](#): > > The zcash team has been preparing to change parameter settings or algorithm entirely to prevent GPU mining. then they should have done that from the start, not after tons of people built expensive GPU miners for mining ZCash - it is a little unfair to them. throwing a lot of people under the bus is not a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth8368](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Stealth8368](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Stealth8368)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/6 "2016-12-19T23:59:10Z")
Really I have not heard of a change to perimeters to prevent GPU mining of zcash, this sounds interesting can you post any source of the discussion please. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth8368](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Stealth8368](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Stealth8368)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 11:59pm UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/7 "2016-12-19T23:59:55Z")
Will have a look @Zorky thanks for heads up ---
**Author:** ![voxelot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/voxelot/32/571_2.png) [@voxelot](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/voxelot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/8 "2016-12-20T00:02:35Z")
> [@Stealth8368](#): > > Really I have not heard of a change to perimeters to prevent GPU mining of zcash > [@cryptomined](#): > > then they should have done that from the start, not after tons of people built expensive GPU miners for mining ZCash - it is a little unfair to them. throwing a lot of people under the bus is not a good thing. > > > At some point in the future, we may have to change the Proof-of-Work in order to… maintain our desired \[mining properties\](https://z.cash/blog/why-equihash.html) and \[goals\](https://forum.z.cash/t/speculative-mining-discussion/579/7). We should have a plan for how to do this. The strategy to change the protocol has at least been in place since August (I have seen mention in May) and the mining requirements and goals of zcash have been around even longer. I don’t find it unfair at all. ---
**Author:** ![cryptomined](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptomined/32/3789_2.png) [@cryptomined](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/cryptomined)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/9 "2016-12-20T00:25:48Z")
when i skim through that it reads as though they are talking about ASIC miners, not GPU miners, where exactly did you see they have been planing to get rid of GPU miners since August? AND if they were planing to get rid of GPU miners since August - why have the reward for a GPU miner??? Shawn said: "First of all, they have never said that “Zcash would only be CPU minable” > [@Novel ASIC for mining Zcash](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/novel-asic-for-mining-zcash/12599/12): > > Since it seems as though you have some sort of axe to grind with the Zcash developers you might want to get your facts straight. First of all, they have never said that “Zcash would only be CPU minable” [Why Equihash? - Electric Coin Company](https://z.cash/blog/why-equihash.html) you can see in that blog post the entire goal of Equihash was to be resistant to “custom hardware” ie: ASIC’s. Many on the forums (including me) interpreted the Equihash algo as leveling the playing field between CPU and GPU to a low factor of 2-4x which di… ---
**Author:** ![voxelot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/voxelot/32/571_2.png) [@voxelot](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/voxelot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/10 "2016-12-20T00:34:23Z")
> [@cryptomined](#): > > where exactly did you see they have been planing to get rid of GPU miners since August? I said that they plan to reduce the advantage of GPU. And as Shawn says in that post. It is well known that the zcash team plans to change the algorithm to encourage small device mining. I know one of the proposed changes is to switch to N and K params that would greatly increase the amount of memory needed to run an equihash solution. Some charts show peak mem usage in the terabytes which would make GPU solvers slower since they would have to swap to RAM. I don’t know if GPU mining will be feasible after changes (a new algorithm may allow for GPU and not all N/K param changes require more mem than a GPU has). ---
**Author:** ![Stealth8368](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Stealth8368](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Stealth8368)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/11 "2016-12-20T00:35:38Z")
Interesting reading and I wonder if ASIC has been around from beginning,there are some very high hash rates out there and some very large wallets for a coin only weeks old,I have 20 rx 480 and am lucky to earn 0.4 zcash some days, for me at moment I just cover power costs with enough left over to buy my coffee in morning lol seriously sometimes needs done and what didn’t help this coin is every GPU old or new was able to mine fast the older GPU’S are faster than new ones and would seem those investing in new GPU’s for zcash waisted there money ---
**Author:** ![cryptomined](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptomined/32/3789_2.png) [@cryptomined](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/cryptomined)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/12 "2016-12-20T00:37:25Z")
there is nothing preventing large farms from investing in and building ASIC miners - they could take over the blockchain behind ZCash’s back and ZCash would not know the difference. I asked shawn how they would prevent large chinese farms from doing this - telling him they could not prevent it - i never got an answer people dont like to answer things they dont want to answer ---
**Author:** ![cryptomined](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptomined/32/3789_2.png) [@cryptomined](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/cryptomined)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/13 "2016-12-20T00:39:15Z")
> [@voxelot](#): > > It is well known that the zcash team plans to change the algorithm to encourage small device mining. sounds like mindgene but seriously, they want mining on mobile devices… and then want to greatly increase the amount of memory needed to run equihash? sounds like contradicting ideas… a little schizo? ---
**Author:** ![voxelot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/voxelot/32/571_2.png) [@voxelot](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/voxelot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/14 "2016-12-20T00:41:23Z")
> [@cryptomined](#): > > they could take over the blockchain behind ZCash’s back and ZCash would not know the difference. Accept for the increased network hashrate? I think everyone would notice. I would imagine if someone developed an ASIC for zcash that they were well funded to begin with (the Taiwanese Semiconductor isn’t cheap) and they would put that power on the network at decent scale. Not sure how anyone could “take over” a blockchain without the “devs” noticing. Not to mention the amount of resources it would take to make an ASIC when the devs can easily switch algos is too risky. ---
**Author:** ![cryptomined](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptomined/32/3789_2.png) [@cryptomined](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/cryptomined)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/15 "2016-12-20T00:42:25Z")
> [@cryptomined](#): > > s like mindgene > > but seriously, they want mining on mobile devices… and then want to greatly increase the amount of memory needed to run equihash? > > sounds like contradicting ideas… a little schizo? by the time they would notice the chain would already be taken over? and you never answered my other question about the ideas being a bit schizo and contradictory ---
**Author:** ![voxelot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/voxelot/32/571_2.png) [@voxelot](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/voxelot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/16 "2016-12-20T00:43:19Z")
> [@cryptomined](#): > > sounds like contradicting ideas… a little schizo? There are also other algorithms they were working on. I am not a zcash dev but exploring equihash test parameters and setting software goals is far from… schizo ---
**Author:** ![cryptomined](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptomined/32/3789_2.png) [@cryptomined](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/cryptomined)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/17 "2016-12-20T00:44:06Z")
i said mining on mobile devices and wanting to increase the amount of memory is contradictory - a bit of a schizo idea Def’n schizo- , schiz- Split, cleft, division; 1. Split; isn’t it??? its not a split? you can have it both ways"? im just saying they cant have it both ways you seem to say they can can they?? wake up one morning - Mining on Mobile devices!!! wake up next morning - Increase memory necessity!! thats schizo, maybe you have a better term to use? ---
**Author:** ![voxelot](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/voxelot/32/571_2.png) [@voxelot](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/voxelot)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/18 "2016-12-20T00:54:12Z")
Quoting Zooko "Our goals are to make mining profitable for casual enthusiasts, using hardware that they already own, when it is idle (e.g. your smartphone while it is plugged in overnight). " Smartphones was just an example and mentioned in a thread post (speculation). I can think of other household computing (old pc’s / tablets) that have higher ram on them that I could use to mine and make GPU’s slow. ---
**Author:** ![cryptomined](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/zcash/user_avatar/forum.zcashcommunity.com/cryptomined/32/3789_2.png) [@cryptomined](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/cryptomined)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/19 "2016-12-20T00:55:15Z")
i read that, but it does not mean they are going to change it for smartphones… we dont know if they really want mining on smartphones or if that was just said to create something to talk about… and you still did not answer my question… you avoid it like the plague… I guess for developers who dont actually develop ANY miners themselves - they can just change it however they want, and depend on others to create miners for their coin … honestly - people worked hard to create miners for their coin - those people should not be thrown under a bus… i think doing so would drive people away from ZCash I mean come on, they dont even have a ZCash Windows Wallet yet … if they are already consdiering changing the algo… maybe they need to create priorities - like MAKE A WINDOWS WALLET??? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth8368](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@Stealth8368](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/u/Stealth8368)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949/20 "2016-12-20T00:57:19Z")
Agree they happy taking 20% of our earnings but give no wallet for windows users, just madness [Next page](https://forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/why-dont-we-see-increases-in-cpu-miners/12949.md?page=2)