WinZEC, Zcash4win/mac, Overwinter and Sapling: an uncertain future

Key negotiation and communications tactic/rule: As soon as you have to point to the technical and legal requirements of the argument, you already lost the fight.

Everything you said is technically correct, but the point here isn’t the technicality. The point is that, yes, Zcash could walk away, but in doing so they will need to accept the consequences of doing so. In my opinion it’s not in ZEC’s best interest to do so.

In full disclaimer…if it wasn’t for @anon47418038’s work on the zcash4win wallet and the ease of use on a widows platform, I would be in another currency and likely would not have adopted ZEC, especially with all the down-time and shenanigans the exchanges have pulled regarding ZEC wallets.
I am sure I’m not the only one.

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Always back up your private keys. You can import them into the official wallet even if your other one became a pumpkin

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yup, and zcashco is welcome to handle the costs of the support burden of that for thousands of users still on non-auto deprecating mac/win clients

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What they would lose is desktop users being able to send shielded transactions, the supposed raison d’etre of the freaking coin

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THAT is why there have been hundreds of thousands of downloads and up to half the network’s full nodes being Windows users…my top downloads have always been from China, where p2p, OTC trading of zcash is the only legal way to use it (hello capital controls!) to make a fiat trade

Dear radix42: thank you so much for all you’ve contributed so far! And for posting this openly so the rest of the community can learn what’s going on with you. I’m sure this issue, as well as a lot of others, will be a big topic for the Zcash Company’s internal strategy process, as well as the community’s deliberations around Zcon0.

:heart:

Zooko

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I suggest that no matter WHAT HAPPENS, you immediately hire some sort of Developer Relations person with a world class track record, as if such an individual had existed and picked up the phone at any of a number of times this last year, we would not be here right now

I am a disabled, queer, single parent, been doing that last bit solo the last 5 years and have had NO in person contact with anyone in crypto aside from two lunches (one with you) and Boulder Blockchain meetups, so yeah, social isolation has been A Thing…and coming out in Jan didn’t do my social media donation flow generation any favors either…actually shocked that I only lost 1% of my followers over THAT one, but that’s prolly because my feed was already a very ecclectic, queer and disability friendly “crossing the streams” with $crypto for a long time by that point

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It is a shame that it has gotten to this level. I raised this issue a while ago on the Foundation Chat as it seemed clear that this would come to a head when there are hard deadlines (Overwinter, Sapling) and such a large % of the network relies on this software and it is closed-source, supported only by a single developer and by donation.

My suggested solution at the time was to “throw some money at the issue” which isn’t necessarily elegant but was meant as a stop-gap measure and I echo @shawn in wishing @anon47418038 had made a grant proposal for ongoing support but hey ho.

I don’t think this is true. As per the proposal here https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/3328 safe mode will be activated for older nodes so aren’t they just going to stop working as disablesafemode wasn’t in the config file by default? This is going to be a terrible user-experience but funds will be safe i.e. they are not transacting on the legacy chain and will be forced to upgrade before they can use their wallet (albeit they will have to work out what the problem is first).

There 100% needs to be an option for current WinZec users to upgrade to prior to Sapling albeit funding this directly just seems like kicking the can down the road. Hypothetically let’s say there was some funding would you be open to open-sourcing the project such that this cycle doesn’t keep repeating (if I understand Zcash4Win was released in that manner?)

This or as per @secparam strategy of a Foundation-supported wallet likely the only realistic long-term solutions.

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I too wish @anon47418038 had made a Grant Proposal, but since that’s not an option, I welcome a proposal from them on a contract relationship with the Foundation to continue funding WinZEC with concrete deliverables, per my tweet:

Looking forward to your email @anon47418038.

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Btw, where is there a convenient place to see the full nodes and what version/software they’re using?

there USED TO BE, but nobody was willing to pay @lustro for the level of effort it took to maintain it and keep the data current and backed up

seeing any parallels here?

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Here: https://zcha.in/network (you can choose the relevant date range)

As per the second comment https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/3328 from bitcartel you can see the breakdown as per 12th June.

Yeah I know that view on zcha.in I don’t understand how you can derive how many are on winzec from that?

Ah OK, you can’t but it’s simply an inference that those crazy old nodes are ZCash4Win as the previous versions were released as 1.0.4 and WinZec 1.0.12 if I am not mistaken i.e. who would be running 1.0.4 and are not using Zcash4Win? If you run getpeerinfo on a node then you can probably get a good estimate as the subver was set to Beanstalk i.e. "subver": "/BeanStalk:1.0.12/" as opposed to MagicBean for official releases. As @anon47418038 points out this wasn’t done for the Overwinter release of WinZec so there’s no way of knowing.

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I’m right now connected to 8 nodes and when I run getpeerinfo all of them are magic bean and not bean stalk. Is there a better way to run getpeerinfo on all full nodes?

no you have to crawl the whole network, and the Great Firewall also doesn’t let you make inbound zcash p2p connections, only outbound…at least it used to…and at least 1/3 of my userbase is from there

also WinZEC identifies as magicbean not beanstalk, as it’ll auto-deprecate…and, you know, bigger privacy set

and it’ll die sometime between Overwinter activation and Sapling

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most of the historical data was also lost at one point, so “past year” and “all time” are very…not correct

none of it is closed source its all on github, you just have to know where to dig

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I believe this would give the closest answer https://github.com/zcash/zcash-seeder, else it’s just an estimate.

That’s true of the 1.1.0 release but not 1.0.12 right?

Basically, anything running 1.0.4 or 1.0.12 is very likely Zcash4Win or WinZec related assuming I got those versions right. As per 1.1.0 it’s not possible to know.

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yes that is correct, I haven’t had the server resources to run my own mapper anymore or time to make a UI for one, so when zchain lost all their data I just gave up on that