A Proposal for Shielded Assets (ZSA/UDA) for DeFi on Zcash

Assuming this grant is indeed a zebra implementation, we would need to make sure zcashd team has the resources to independently implement it on their side. Otherwise we’d have to fund another independent implementation (can’t be same team).

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Timeline looks optimistic :slightly_smiling_face::+1:

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Meaning too ambitious or conservative / doable? Let’s discuss at the arborist call :slight_smile:

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Looks great guys.
Quick question, this grant is targeting essentially zsa funcionality and not the ux on mint those right? How would you expect to implement it? Or is this a task included on ecc wallet roadmap ?

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Discussion about this ZSA proposal on the Arborist call is now up:

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9 women don’t make a baby in a month, but is there buffer within the team if you wanted to allocate more man-hours to parallelise/speed certain things?

Correct, the proposal leaves out of scope an actual UX wallet. I would imagine that wallet providers would take responsibility of implementing the frontend for ZSA, or so I hope!

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Well, we will have several people working on the same milestone to advance in parallel, but there is a limit to how much you can parallelize this kind of work since there are too many moving pieces that are dependent, and the security risk is also high.

We will do our best!

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@egg is working on exploratory design elements to support both tokens & NFTs in @NighthawkWallet, we will be sharing these designs soon.

The NFT market has exploded to multiple billions of dollars in total volume just this year. Shielded NFTs will provide privacy in ownership and transfers while keeping portion of public facing data visible.

How are you planning to support public facing data and possibly minting of a Shielded NFT and a Metadata standard? i.e. exposing the NFT type, policy-id, and properties in a simple JSON format - see Minting NFTs | Cardano Developer Portal & CIP - NFT Metadata Standard - CIPs - Cardano Forum

Settling on a Metadata standard makes possible public gallery of tokens like this: pool.pm
(following Cardano’s example over Ethereum standard is a better idea as Cardano uses UTXO model over Ethereum’s Account based/smart contract model for each asset).

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Curious - how would this create synergies with ECC’s roadmap for interoperability as published on their blog? How would your one-way bridge (outside-to-in) work with their Cosmos approach (bi-directional, presumably)?

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(Speaking for myself, not ECC)

Note that the ECC roadmap uses Cosmos as an example, not as a solution. It is too early to be restricting the PoS design space to specifically the Cosmos stack, or even PoS designs that are compatible with Cosmos’ IBC (which IIRC places specific finality requirements on the underlying consensus layer). However, the ability to which a particular design enables interoperability is something we will be considering as part of the design exploration process, and IBC-based interoperability is an attractive option given the existing ecosystem.

Now, assuming that a PoS approach was taken that enabled us to leverage IBC directly, that on its own would only be a one-way bridge (inside-to-out: ZEC could move from the Zcash chain to other ecosystems). Even though IBC itself is bi-directional, other assets could not move onto the Zcash chain because there’s currently nowhere for them to “live”. So I personally see ZSAs as entirely complementary to ECC’s interoperability roadmap.

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amazing. the outcome i was hoping for. duplication of efforts might not be ideal.

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A suggestion / request to people in the community who are excited for what this means for DeFi on Zcash: draw a straight line between (A) the completion of this grant and (B) your ideal state for DeFi-able Zcash.

Who are the kinds of people/projects that we need to bring in and start using Qedit’s rails? AMMs? Lending protocols? NFT projects? What kind of incentives should we set aside to get the party started? How do we get the wider builder and user community excited about the new possibilities?

These ideas could seed new applications to the 2022 ZOMG panel.

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Quick answer without too much thought: artists.

I’d love a grass roots approach to bootstrap actual digital artists using Zcash to mint and sell NFTs.

One person who comes to mind to ask advice from would be cryptopathic on twitter. I don’t know much about him but I have heard him call out the fact that so many NFT projects are not “actual art” and point out that chains like Tezos actually have lots of artists actually using it due to low costs. Plus he’s a notable Zcash bull.

When we interviewed Amber Baldet, she also seemed to have lots of thoughts on NFTs and lack of actual art. Just spitballing, but I’d also be curious of her thoughts.

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@LeCryptoMath the ZOMG met today and we love this application. As the community has indicated in the thread, this is a very desirable feature set for Zcash. We have much hope that this is one of several first steps for our community towards greater synergy with the rest of the crypto community, which will ultimately benefit ZEC holders.

The current ZOMG panel is a reduced-panel, consisting of @Shawn and @Souptacular. The three of us volunteered to stay on after the original term expired (Nov 20 - Oct 21), until the new panel is in place. As a result, we do not believe we have the quorum to approve such a large and significant grant, and one that the next panel will have to track and be held accountable for (practically speaking, even if they didn’t approve the grant).

It is likely that the next panel will be in place in January, so it will likely not be too long of a wait. We appreciate your patience. Perhaps this means you can have a more relaxed holiday season! :wink:

Again, thank you for putting together a proposal that is all of the below:

  • desired by the community
  • clearly explained
  • complete in planning
  • incorporates ECC and ZF collaboration
  • fairly priced given the work involved

Good luck!

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I honestly think there is 0% chance of rejection! Engineering work can be kickstarted @LeCryptoMath if you feel comfortable (good amount of time was already put in, which resulted in great proposal & list of milestones). Don’t let pending ZOMG decision stop you & your team from working on ZSA.

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Thank you so much to all the ZOMG and @ml_sudo for the answer.

the truth is that the whole QEDIT team is extremely excited to get things started, and we are even more inspired by the community reaction and support, we were not expecting it!

We completely understand the decision to wait until the next ZOMG committee, though if you find it fit, we would be willing to start off with the first two milestones right away. Do you feel like that is something that you could accept before the elections are done?

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Hey @aiyadt, I love this direction of thought and the fact that you have already started thinking about it. As the project has not been confirmed yet by the ZOMG we did not get to the level of depth and detail to have a proper answer to the metadata handling question.

My first gut reaction is:

  1. I am not sure how much public-facing data should exist within the ZSA system. Maybe for the NFT-type token we can define a decryptable metadata or as part of the encryption accessible by the viewing keys. In the context of the design, it does not make sense to make public metadata as it would leak from the anonymity pool. So when you mention

what do you mean?

  1. The issuance process will most likely not involve private minting, at least not for the MVP. That is, the minting has the “request to mint” and the “transfer of ownership” components. The former will probably not be private, and the latter will, as happens with the improved private mining in Zcash Sapling.
  2. Regarding standards, we would love to have an equivalent “ZRC-721/20/1155” etc… though it would make sense, as you said, to go by the cardano / UTXO approach for the standard.

I think the best possible outcome would be to have individual users be able to easily prove ownership of some NFT so that they can be displayed publicly, yet not reveal the concrete transaction. This is not trivial to implement and is currently on a second frame for the project. We will try to incorporate discussions around this, but we really want to focus on the basic functionality and build from there.

Happy to have further discussions on a call (publicly too).

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Indeed I totally agree with @str4d comment, and will add that even if our ZSA project includes the ability to “import” tokens into Zcash, it will be at the expense of trust on specific parties, whereas I expect the interoperability design of the ECC to be more comprehensive in the security and integrity of the bridge.

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Related discussion with Dan Finlay, founder and CEO of MetaMask, which is I think by far the most widely-used user interface for people to interact with tokens today:

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