Hypothetically speaking, if there were a coin-weighted poll with shielded orchard notes, how many of you would participate?
Great idea & it helps with on-chain orchard use & zcash security budget
Coin-weighted polling is the most important development going on in Zcash right now. I am amped to see this and look forward to details! 
9 Likes
Absolutely i would
2 Likes
What the f* are we waiting for. In the future we will be embarrassed for taking so long to do this, guaranteed.
It should be simple too, but on this I don’t know what is possible. Ideally, an implementation where we can sign whatever text we want and the signature includes a proof of token count somehow.
Anyone could then say, token weighted sign either of those two statements:
- I support dropping t-addrs for the 10 years anniversary of Zcash.
- I DO NOT support dropping t-addrs for the 10 years anniversary of Zcash.
Then provide a way for people to send that token weighted signature in an anonymous way. The forum is not such thing imho as it’s important we don’t start judging people’s comments by the size of their wallets.
4 Likes
Count me in.
2 Likes
I’d love to try it and write articles about how it works. I feel like we could rally 100 votes or more from small holders associated with f2z and other v4v communities. It would be an awesome driver for education, participation, and be another reason to earn and hold.
6 Likes
Yes, that is what being proposed here. It’s like you have more votes the more ZEC you have, but you don’t have to spend it to vote, just prove that you have it in an anonymous manner.
(I’m not a big fan of it because I don’t think people with more ZEC have more say in the future of Zcash. But I’d probably end up voting, out of technical curiosity)
That is hard to do due to the anonymity of Zcash. You could split your ZEC and get multiple votes.
3 Likes
2 Likes
My primary concern with coin-weighted voting is the potential need to thaw coins from cold storage in order to be able to participate. If one wants to be able to vote their full stake, it requires a bunch of fiddling to be able to do signing on an airgapped machine, and depending upon the amount that someone might want to be able to vote with it could be logistically impossible; for example, suppose that Grayscale wanted to vote with all their voting power - there’s not a scenario where they’re going to transfer that much value to an online wallet (and particularly not a mobile wallet.) So there would need to be some heavily audited, highly secure mechanism for them to use.
Coin-weighted polling is a nice idea, but I don’t think it’s practical except for toy scenarios.
Note that this might be something that’s less challenging after a PoS transition - since large amounts of value will end up in locked stake, and there will need to be secure tools for manipulating that value, those tools could also be designed with coin-weighted voting in mind.
7 Likes
In general, you don’t have to move coins for voting. For this poll, you may have to do so because the window is one week, but it does not have to be. It could be the entire orchard pool. It would just take longer to download the blockchain data.
You can also vote using the viewing key and leave your coins in cold storage. However, we also support signing the ballot with the spending key for extra validation. No fiddling is required, and certainly no need for a mobile wallet.
Speaking of Grayscale, maybe it is better if they don’t vote. They don’t represent their investors (or community), and they would have such voting power they can swing the result in any way they want.
2 Likes
And this is the problem with coin voting more generally. If the solution is “hope a huge whale doesn’t vote their interests at the expense of everyone else” then how can a coin poll be judged to actually be representative of community sentiment?
3 Likes
I will let others weigh in on this philosophical debate.
2 Likes
coin weighted polling is more similr to how shareholder meetings work in business.
so the people who have more belief in a thing buy more shares/coins probably.
tho yes its not as effective for people from lower classes and whales indeed get way more power
but whales are also big part of the whole economy anyway.
its a very complicated topic tbh
3 Likes
yeah true, but it can totally be simplified.
Who here can tell me that the “community” is not comprised of people who want the demise of Zcash? No really, who?
Because it would make perfect sense for our competitors or whatever enemy of privacy, to be part of our community without having a single ZEC token, so they can vote in a way that would ruin the project. Plus, hey! they can even do it in perfect sybil fashion by leveraging AI and automating at least partially posting on this forum things that will make it less enjoyable and make people (hi!) not want to come here.
So, who wants to see ZEC succeed? I mean, we can never tell for sure but, who has the highest odds of wanting ZEC to succeed? Yeah you got that right baby. ZEC holders. Let us f* vote.
I’ll add: plus giving a voice to ZEC holders is literally absolutely legitimate and does not commit to anything. It’s just that: giving them a voice. It’s ludicrous that I have to make a case for this.
6 Likes
I completely agree with this view. I’m pleased to see Hanh working on creating a mechanism that gives coinholders a voice. An experimental poll to assess coinholder sentiment on some of the Dev Fund issues seems like a great way to test it out.
12 Likes
Take a peak inside one large group of people organizing to vote and decide how to spend treasury budget in Polkadot (also vote on network upgrades, but that’s not relevant to our model). We will get there because the two alternatives are either that, or the current kind of elective monarchy. The only question is how slow will be our wake up moment.
1 Like
That sounds like a fascinating idea! Given Zcash’s commitment to privacy, limiting participation wouldn’t be necessary—each ZEC should indeed have the same vote.
Since the value of ZEC depends on its holders, every stakeholder, including businesses, should have the right to participate.
It’s a great way to ensure everyone’s voice is heard in a truly democratic and secure manner!
4 Likes
We’ll run a test first.
To participate,
You must have orchard notes created in the 2-week window that started last week and will end next week.
Note that they are not usable if you have orchard notes from BEFORE last week.
You need to refresh them by doing a new transaction before the end of next week.
The snapshot will be taken at height 2553000. We can then vote.
Stay put for more info…
15 Likes
What is the easiest way to refresh those notes in ywallet? Pool transfer out of and back into orchard?
2 Likes