Dev Fund Review of All Proposals (Hudson's Review)

Although the amendments are more practical for the ECC I still think it doesn’t go far enough in being flexible to the organizations that would be involved in having to rely on that formula you proposed and effectively plan a budget around it.

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Thank you so much for doing the work of reading all the proposals and writing your thoughts about each. It looks like you might have missed Gojomo’s eleventh-hour submission: ZIP: "Keep It Simple, Zcashers (KISZ): 10% to ECC, 10% to ZFnd"

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We’re one of those organizations seeking a dev fee allocation :man_shrugging: it’s not too bad IMO.

@acityinohio do you think the grant funding change is tough on the ZF’s annual budgeting process?

Thanks again for doing this @Souptacular!

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Hey @Souptacular, thank you for writing up your thoughts for the community.

I understand that you and also some other voters do not like the on-chain voting aspect of my proposal. Since you said you liked everything else about the proposal, maybe you should consider supporting the ‘Keep it simple Zcash’ proposal, with just splits 10% to the ECC and 10% to the Foundation, and has no on-chain voting?

Also a quick note that at current ZEC prices the 10% total dev funding in the Blocktown proposal would not allow ECC to continue in their current operations as they are today…I think most ZEC holders don’t want ECC to start winding down, but that would be the result of that proposal. Most proposals wisely chose 20% to ensure there is enough funding for R&D even with low ZEC prices.

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The current production of 7200 zec per day, after halving 3600, we get 3600 * 36 = 129600 per day.
20% of 129600 is equal to 25920, we have 777,600 per month, as far as I can remember, about $ 1,200,000 is needed for the fund and ECC to work, so it seems that at least 40% of the 100 coins mined are needed, but the price will still go down, so it’s better to play it safe and allocate about 95%.

95% of what, block rewards? I’m not sure if you are serious or being sarcastic. Either way the ZIP deadline has passed so you can vote on the proposals now:

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic :slight_smile:

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Of course this is sarcasm, just before that they specified that 10% is not enough, I described that 20% is also not enough, well, to be more precise, 30% is not enough at the current price, because ECC expenses after staffing should have amounted to $ 1,200,000, if we add the costs of the fund, it turns out that the crisis will be in any scenario, with the exception of price increases, which is ignored so far.

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I will soon be making updates to my article based on comments in this thread and other discussions.

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Dear Hudson, thank you so much for your contribution to Zcash! Please watch

if you haven’t already. It is ECC’s attempt to show what we do and why and to give our basic ideas for what sort of dev fund designs would serve Zcash well going forward.

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Thanks so much for the thoughtful write-up @Souptacular — I’m sure it will be really helpful for others as they evaluate proposals.

I think we could work with it, but I personally prefer an endowment max rather than a monthly budgetary cap for the desired flexibility (while still ensuring the Foundation doesn’t engage in financial/power capture).

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I have edited the blog with new updates. Due to a charachter limit I had to move my edits to my personal blog.

Overview of Edits

  • Eliminated my #2 and #3 choices for simplicity.
  • Added the following 2 blurbs:

Post-Research View

I gave my “Pre-Research View”, but not my “Post-Research View” as far as letting everone know my thoughts after doing some more research on the areas in the “Pre-Research View” (outside of the ZIPs). I said above that “Once I read Jame’s piece I started to question how well the ECC has been managed.” Zooko was kind enough to send me this video that gives a great overview of the ECC. I also talked frankly to Zooko about some of the things brought up in Jame’s piece and I am comfortable saying that I believe the ECC is being managed well. No organization is perfect, but the level of transparency provided based on the ECC material I have dug into shows that things are growing and successful.

A note on ECC’s Funding from my perspective

I know there is a lot of fear about the ECC having to wind down if their budget is not met. That is a real concern. The fact that they now have around 30 employees and their quarterly cost (as described in the Q3 2019 transparency report) is well under $1m is really astounding for the level of expertise they have on their team. It would be prudent to donate some of the ZF Grants funds to the ECC in addition to the 30% of the dev fund that the ECC will already receive under this plan. It is important to keep the ECC afloat. It really hurt me to choose a proposal that would potentially put the future of the ECC in jeopardy, but I wanted my choice, above all else, to be reflective of what I felt was best for Zcash according to what the Zcash community wanted and that reflected the values of Zcash.

I hope I have responded to all feedback in my edits, but if I have not leave a comment.

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@Souptacular I have bumped your forum level to Member which should allow you to edit more.

If you run into any other snags let me know

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I thought the number was closer to $550k per month which would be $1.5M+ per quarter? At one time they had said it would be closer to $1.1M per month.

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That’s true. The run rate is actually a bit higher than $550k/mo now. Our report on Q2 will be ready early Jan. We did budget for $1.1M per month when the coin price was higher but pulled back on a number of fronts (a lot of marketing spend, Asia community, etc.) due to budget shortfalls given the current coin price.

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can you add more on ‘Asia community’? what did ECC plan for Asia, curious to hear.

Long detail short: Hire a head of Asia and possibly a BD. Community development and pr (fintech) plans in Japan, S. Korea, Singapore, HK and China. Lighter weight exploratory moe-related work in smaller emerging markets: Philippines, Indonesia, Thailand.

Community development work varies (meetups, digital, content development, bd) based on context but we have bids for support from 3rd parties in each of major locations. Possible research work in Singapore in conjunction with the Monitory Authority of Singapore and a local University, and in S. Korea. Some cross promotion with exchanges based on the availability of content, local research, pr and regulatory engagement. Some education / pr targeted to Asia-based institutional set with SoV narrative.

Zcash is less well known across much of Asia. We made foundational investments this year but it will require much more.

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Do not tell me when the main work will begin on everything that you wrote?
It’s just that I’ve heard about Asia for several years, and earlier when the coin cost more than 100
it wasn’t done in any form, then when the calculation was for coins of 90 you cut costs, now when the price is close to 33 dollars you say that you cut costs and throw out the direction until better times, then when next year the coin will be worth 20 will there be enough money? Or immediately after reducing the reward by 2 times?

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I don’t understand the question, but I’ll list a few examples of our work this year.

This year, we held meetups in Seoul, Tokyo and Singapore. We met with MAS in Singapore and JVCEA in Japan along with an attorney we hired to help us navigate Japanese regulation. I spent several weeks in China, Japan, S Korea and Singapore. Zooko was there for a couple weeks and spoke at these meetups and with regulators. We also sponsored Ian Miers travel to speak at a conference for JFSA in Japan. Zooko conducted an online AMA for the Chinese community. We started research with RAND in support regional regulatory work that is set to complete in Jan. We provided translations of regulatory material for Korean and Japanese regulators. We’ve met with numerous exchanges and experts in the areas to better understand the landscape, deepen our understanding of privacy concerns, reframe incorrect narratives and plan for expansion. We developed a number of relationships with key regional influencers. We worked with a number of third parties on efforts and funding required for regionally specific pr, regulatory and community development. But we did pull back on greater ambitions, as any fiscally responsible entity would do.

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What do you expect from all this work done? As far as I understand, interest in the meeting did not arise regarding zcash, because there is no news or announcements. In the past, when they talked about Asia, they suggested explosive interest, now say that there were so many meetings and nothing at the end, abandoned big ambitions in favor of preserving the balance of finances?
We talked about marketing and viral advertising before.