Grant Idea - Integrating Zondax Ledger App to Desktop App

Great! Hopefully I can watch the recording soon. I was gonna join the call but it’s before 5am in my timezone :sweat_smile:

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I think that all the delays in infrastructure directions this year are due to the fact that Zcash is switching to a completely different architecture of Halo. Once the network is updated, we will see a lot of progress.

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Let’s hope Trezor delivers on their grant
:crossed_fingers:

It feels like this is a lost cause. Especially as Zondax app uses Sapling which surely be deprecated as soon as Orchard were deemed stable on mainnet.

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Yeah if they don’t roll it out before Trezor I’d definitely be going with Trezor and I’m sure most would.
Would be nice if Trezor could take less time than 13 months or whatever the timeline is though.

I’m not sure sapling will disappear so fast.

From an engineering point of view, an API is missing: get nk. It won’t leak any sensitive information but will allow wallets to derive the nullifiers. Without it, they cannot detect spends. It seems trivial but it takes significant work to modify a ledger app. Because it is an embedded environment, you will need to setup their exact toolchain to build.
In any case, I think it is the job of Zondax to deliver a workable API.
Then there is the part about integration. Desktop wallets should be able to use the ledger-rs integration lib but mobile wallets will need to work harder. The USB/HID interface is not recognized directly and needs some platform native code (for Android and iOS).
All in all, it is complicated and I don’t think someone will pick this task in his spare time.
I think it is one of these times when an app is more useful for the public than for developers.

Tbh, I’d rather have FROST finished so that wallets can do multisigs shielded.

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Hey!

It is true that the ECC team has been focused on NU5. It’s the most significant technical upgrade in Zcash history and it’s super important we get it right. I want the wallet live as much as you!

That said, the Ledger issue could be solved by anyone with a wallet who wants to make the integration a priority. Although it’s not performant - I think it takes several minutes to create a proof and I’m not sure if they are still optimizing it - I think it could be integrated into Zecwallet, or maybe even a mobile wallet like Nighthawk or Unstoppable via Bluetooth (not entirely sure). Maybe you can ask them about prioritizing it?

We did speak with Ledger about Ledger Live and there is a process. I believe Zondax knows the Ledger team well and should be able to speak to the process for getting it supported natively within the Ledger Live app.

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Can confirm that Trezor is actively working on adding support.

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This is really a frustrating and meaningless reply to the community members here that is just more goalpost moving.

That said, the Ledger issue could be solved by anyone with a wallet who wants to make the integration a priority.

What I’m interpreting here is: it’s up to the community to figure out. Zondax applied and was given a grant, and when the community members wonder what the status is (after some vague updates), a representative from the ECC says that “anyone can figure it out”. A non-performant haphazard last-mile “integration” doesn’t sound too compelling to me.

Although it’s not performant - I think it takes several minutes to create a proof and I’m not sure if they are still optimizing it

Someone affiliated with Zcash should know this…

Maybe you can ask them about prioritizing it?

Then what’s exactly the point of the Zcash foundation or the ECC if it’s “up to us” to figure out the rest?

We did speak with Ledger about Ledger Live and there is a process.

And? What is that process? What else was said?

I believe Zondax knows the Ledger team well and should be able to speak to the process for getting it supported natively within the Ledger Live app.

Should, could, would… Where is the action?

Can confirm that Trezor is actively working on adding support.

Trezor already confirmed this. Can we get some actual information about the original topic in this thread?

I have reached out to the Zondax team via email.

I brought up the open GitHub issue by @hanh as well as a recent issue on their projects GitHub regarding whether desktop app support would accelerate this process & the work required to support Orchard/Unified addresses.

I asked them to provide an overall update on the project as well as address the above inquiries in a forum post for the community to see.

I will also keep things updated in this thread if I hear from them via email.

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This is what leadership looks like.

Thank you.

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sorry, you’re absolutely right, I will delete

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Thanks, Id like to think the community/ZF/ZOMG would support Zecwallet/Nighthawk/Hanh with funding to get this up and running for users.
Sounds like this would be an option if Zondax action Hanhs Github issue.
Even if it takes several minutes to create a proof many would only be storing on Ledger so would be happy with the trade off

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Thanks Josh, do you know how much if any of Zondax Sapling work would be useful for any future work to support Orchard on Ledger?

Thanks! @joshs and @decentralistdan for the responses

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I’m not sure but I’ll see what I can find out.

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Has there been any response to this? Can you share anything to the public?

Zondax has not responded to any Zcash issues on their github. Issues · Zondax/ledger-zcash · GitHub

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mobile app is enough,it’s so stupid to develop desktop app in mobile zone

Is it safe to say this implementation has failed in favor of Trezor’s?

There is clear progress with Trezor in support of Orchard.

To my knowledge, Ledger support for Sapling is completely stalled and there are no efforts to add support for Orchard.

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Gotcha. Thanks for following up.