If ZEC holders looking to see Zcash improved and refocused are trolls, then I suppose its the trolls against the Zealots.
3 Likes
I see a lot of familiar usernames, and a few new ones. Iâm aware some people like to look at the glass half empty, but that doesnât mean they are wrong. Throwing out names doesnât help the situation.
Ok Jgx7, letâs take a chill with the all caps. Whoâs saying there are two factions @Jgx7 ? Both sides seem to want the same thing, to improve Zcash So what, precisely, sets them apart? And how can we bridge that gap?
I donât think anyone is 100% happy with how the last couple years have played out, not in their holdings stagnating , not in broken wallets and stuck funds, myself included.
But how do we move Zcash forward if all we do is focus on arguing about âmy side is better than your side?â . I would love to see those that have the most time to burn reading and reacting to the posts here come up with real actionable items for the management teams to put into Zcash and Zebra core.
The upcoming Zboot (Zcash Reboot) needs the support of everyone here if they really want to effect change. The transition of Zcashd to Zebra represents a massive opportunity to change and question core protocol like never before.
I wonât be commenting further in this thread, I made my point about why I think diversification of ZF/ECC/ZCG holdings is important.
If others wish to reply to me with ways to move Zcash forward Iâll be hanging out in the Zboot thread.
8 Likes
I missed @Shawn . Welcome back to the Zcash forum 
7 Likes
What happens today is Virtue Signaling.
If ZF/ ECC dumped their altcoins and aligned to a material ALL-IN on Zcash balance sheet, that would be the opposite of virtue signaling lol.
What we have today is perpetual virtue signaling. Weâve got these organizations that self-assert a mission to help Zcash succeed, but in the reality of it, theyâre dumping the ZEC coins as if theyâre worthless monopoly dollars with a foolâs gambling market.
We should stop with the Virtue Signaling, and start with some Virtue Actualizing.
Are we All-in Zcash or not?
3 Likes
they arenât wrong. I mean what else can you do with Zcash? It needs utility. That will give it value in the long run.
1 Like
They control what was built - so unfortunately for us as ZEC holders they were right on the hedge and wrong on what was developed. They should be adding utility, make ZEC the coin that powers the Zcash network and go all in on ZSAs/stablecoins, programmability, POS. Once the orgs have alignment on a cohesive vision; prioritize development around this vision while cutting and eliminating the projects not aligned with this visionâŚThen, go All In on ZEC (convert hedges back into ZEC).
3 Likes
I believe this needs repeating on a day like today!
While ZEC drives deeper and deeper into relative All Time Low valuations 
How can we ever believe a thriving, growing ecosystem is possible, if the value of ZEC over time only goes down? In some large parts because even the two major organizations building the project and the vast majority of PoW miners securing the network wonât respect the value of the native coins.
2 Likes
Now would be a good time to reiterate. Could be a pivotal moment in progress. Continue to bleed out or go to the moon from here?
3 Likes
No one in charge of any of that really cares.
1 Like
Can you @skyl or someone else give us a little color commentary explaining that depth chart? Thanks!
1 Like
It means that someone (or some people) is waiting to buy 1 BTC worth of ZEC at the current best bid -1.16%.
Another way to see it: if someone wants to sell 1 BTC worth of ZEC, they will incur a slippage of ~1.16%
1 Like
For an asset with the market cap/liquidity of Zcash, I wouldnât read much into a depth chart. Itâs an easy way to put out bullish or bearish signals at 0 cost. Doesnât necessarily mean that someone is waiting to by 1 BTC worth of ZEC, just as likely that someone wants you to think that.
Also want to chime in that I have a hard time seeing how attempting to support price action by Dev Fund orgs would result in anything meaningful. There isnât nearly enough dry powder on hand to stand against determined sellers and besides, neither ZF nor ECC is a trading outfit. IMO Better to stay diversified to maintain some modicum of funding to maintain operations during this prolonged drought.
1 Like
Hmmm ⌠there is an order right there. I donât see what is left to interpretation. The order will be matched if there is a seller.
1 Like
Iâve seen the practice of putting large bids or asks in place briefly to psych out the other sideâŚgive the appearance of support or resistance to scare people off.
Regardless, today is a lovely day to buy some ZEC.
Just a bitcoin or 2 would absolutely change the market dynamics - it would have prevented ZEC reaching a new alltime low last night. I could have done it myself but it would be pretty dumb to hold the market up alone when there is an obvious lack of confidence and conviction from anyone else in the market including the devfund orgs.
There is basically no buy liquidity, little volume. 60 bitcoin could probably double or triple the price of ZEC in bitcoin and hold it. Itâs hard to say how high the price would go with that kind of support. Itâs hard to justify buying when you are sure that there is no support and a new alltime low is guaranteed without a change in policy at the central treasury. A million dollars could probably send the price to $50 or $100. ZEC is not plunging to new lows because of determined sellers, itâs sagging and bleeding to new lows 1 ZEC at a time because there is no support, no buyers. Determined sellers would probably change their minds and become buyers if just a couple of bitcoin were standing in the way.
I believe Zcashers vastly overestimate the depth of the market (probably looking at inflated daily volume numbers and imaging what that means).
Just the taxes on some of the biggest grants and salaries is enough weight on the market to hold it down.
3 Likes
It is worse, the Dev Orgs are actively selling about $500,000 of ZEC every month. I believe that most of us lowly ZEC holders would be happy if the selling stopped, we havenât even got the imagination to think that the ZF or ECC would actively buy more ZEC.
Binance is the only exchange with a ZEC-BTC market worth looking at. Coinbase, Kraken, Kucoin and all others are very very thinly traded, to be honest it is surprising that those CEXs even keep them open.
It would signal an ideological change, something of this nature:
Weâre done dabbling in Bitcoin, Ethereum, Agoric, Starkware, Bolt, et al.
Weâre all in on Zcash (ZEC) now
You might be correct to suggest that there isnât a magic amount of buyside capital that would âdefendâ any random price level, my opinion is that the price would be defended because of the signaling of a change in ideology by the Big 2 Block subsidy orgs. (ZCG is happily out of this discussion, because their treasury is nice and clean - they own ZEC and USD only)
Thatâs the whole point. Why did they ever trade into these other huge altcoin positions in the first place? Was it really the point of a Zcash block subsidy, for these orgs to turn around and operate like second-tier crypto hedge funds?
Exactly, and this is why Iâve been saying it for almost a year now. Zcash needs to give markets a signal that there has been an ideological change. No more of this wake-up and sell ZEC mindset; look at how badly the Zcash brand has been damaged already. People donât want to give this project a chance because they know the Devs and ASIC miners are always dumping
Hold on⌠You donât believe the $30,000,000 of 24h trading volume on YoBit? LOL
4 Likes
Not to mention they tell people its a fiat alternative currency. Nothing but sellersâŚWho in their right mind wants to be a fiat currency? 99% of all wealth is not held in the form of currency, governments are going to control their currencies plain and simple. And most importantly, the 21m cap makes ZEC not a viable coin structure for a fiat like currency. Its a commodity like gold (and who uses gold to buy things?)âŚWe need Defi. ZEC=SOV. ZCash Blockchain=private transactions. The ecostem is missing a stablecoin, ZSAs, programmaibilityâŚGoing nowhere until this starts. The vision needs to change now. We cant wait a year or more.
It is nice to be able to spend ZEC (dont get me wrong); but if you plan on spending it within a year or two. You should not be buying ZEC. Its too risky. ZEC is for holding to protect wealth over the medium to long run. Stablecoins will dominate day to day transactions. We have a fatal vision, marketing, and development prioritization problem.
3 Likes
i wanted to buy some ZEC with BTC a few days ago and it did not work, i donât remember the exact error notification but i had to go via EUR/ZEC.
this is currently my biggest issue with Zcash, i am down so much and print new lows in BTC every day while these orgs act like an investment fund. is this actually legal for them to invest in startups and trade ZEC for other tokens?
tbf, it was my own decision to buy and hold ZEC. but if that trust in ZEC doesnât change at the top levels of ECC and the Foundation i will be gone and join other privacy oriented projects in the future. (Namada, Aztec, EspressoâŚ) thereâs many others that i am sure will handle situations like this way better than we do in here.
2 Likes