Why did you leave Zcash or sold all your ZEC?

#1

As there is a topic “Why did you choose Zcash” i think there should be as well a topic like: “Why did you leave Zcash”, where people leaving Zcash and this forum, like me, can post their reasons.

It’s just time to say good-bye after 2,100+ posts and nearly exatly 1 year after i joined this forum. Without either mining or holding any ZEC today and with absolutly different views than the majority of this forum i think the only reasonable consequence is too leave this forum and the rest of it’s community.

Reasons: (not that anybody cares or even should care)

  • Consensus: by today i think POW coins (expect BTC) are doomed to fail. POS designs/hybrid designs got my interest and i have more faith into these projects than into any other POW coin (expect BTC).

  • Innovations: I might missing something, but for my taste the next 2 years nothing real innovative is planned. In todays competition which is tighter and harder than ever i really hoped Zcash can come up with something real innovative having in mind the huge budget that is available for the first years.

  • Funding: Expiring funding, like with Zcash in 2020, made me realize that a projects that i better bet on projects that have continous funding forever than these that have a premine, limited time funding, only donations. As there is no real statement on what will happen after 2020 with funding i again don’t feel comfortable.

  • Foundation lagging: All of the foundation guys/girls are really nice, no doubt. But again for my taste, with so much funding and budget available i think they are lagging way to much, way to slow, not enough commited to real important matters. Reading a post where a foundation member openly says “i don’t care about ZEC adoption” underlines my feeling that there is really no real interest in working hard towards adoption and for the good of ZEC. That’s just my opinion, others might be well over-satisfied by the foundations work, i’am not.

  • Price/Marking: Crypto is one of my businesses and not just a hobby. As good as ZEC is with cryptography and it’s real good experts, that bad they are in my opinion in marketing and marketing influencing things/matters. To make it short, marketing is not on the level i would have awaited from a team with such a budget. The bad choosen inflation rate by design does the rest …

  • Asics: While i myself did everything to to have ZEC asic friendly, it was the biggest mistake i made since i’am in crypto and i honestly regret all my efforts towards it. It as a mistake to leave asics on the network and it’s even a bigger one to continue like this toward absolute mining centralization. Asics + POW is from my todays view the worst possible combination.

  • Ghost Town: This forum has become a ghost town. I won’t speculate about all the reasons but it’s a reason me as an active member doesn’t feel comfortable anymore.

  • My personal bearish view: As my bearish view total differs from the majority of the “remaining” community and their “to the moon” feeling/believe i don’t think it’s ok the majority has to read my daily niggle comments and posts. For the good feeling of these forum members this is as well a reason i just leave this forum.

  • Governance: To be honest i would have awaited more community involved governance. Unfortunatly it’s obvious that things for the good or bad, are decided by a few without any real community influence. This of course is just me, others may prefer ready to go decisions without elections/voting/discussion…

  • Privacy: There is no doubt hat ZEC currently is one of the top privacy coins and this was the main reason i than back had faith into ZEC. Today, more and more currencies adopt just these/similar privacy features step by step and i don’t see anymore the huge advantage Zcash had 2 years ago. This combined with most of the above reasons and the current development makes me believe that the future won’t be as bright as it was until now.

  • Ycash Fork: Last but not least, the “friendly” ycash announced fork. Seriously, my opinion is just that’s it’s a money of thin air project, nothing less, nothing more. Having ZEC officials even support this mega ameutirsh nonsens fork just gave me the rest and made me finally totally lose faith into the Zcash project. Good luck with this one …

Hopefully nobody awaited that my last post will be a short one :joy::innocent:

Finally:
A big sorry to all asic resistance supporters, you guys have just been right.
There is someone felt offended at some time by any of my posts.

And specially for @kek . I will win the bet that ZEC isn’t in the top 20 by market cap end of the year, but as i’am sure you made this bet in fully believing/loving ZEC i do not want the US$ 5,000 (in case i win of course). A nice bottle wine of whiskey will do the job, ok? :wink:

Good luck everybody :sneezing_face:

Don’t delete my account, i might read from time to tome “the to the moon topic” to see how the mood is there :sunglasses:

Edited 05. May. 2019: Changed the title of the topic because i personally still make some posts here and there, but without holding any ZEC, without mining, without much faith in the Zcash future …

10 Likes
Radical “to the moon” thread
#2

If only we had a time machine!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and contributing to the ASIC mining discussion. You helped to make it the second most popular thread on this forum and in the process earned me a bunch of forum badges. :laughing:

Likewise, best of luck to you.

3 Likes
#3

There are some good thoughts in your “final” post. But your bet with @kek, i hope @kek wins, because then something good have happened to zec😁 and i win too😎.

2 Likes
#4

Sorry to see you go, you were always good for in-depth conversation on any topic that came up.

Best of luck with wherever you gravitate towards next. :slightly_smiling_face::earth_americas::compass:

2 Likes
#5

Governance: To be honest i would have awaited more community involved governance.

Governance to me seems utopia: It’s a great idea/concept, but it lies on the principle that the majority of the people understand, care and are ready to act accordingly.
I love the idea but I don’t believe it is possible. Politics and “democracies (Rule by people)” all over the world is a proof of it… Doesn’t work as theory says…
I do agree that the tools need to be available, but energy shouldn’t be spent to convince people to use it. Let people figure out by themselves…

It was interesting to read you. Cheers.

1 Like
#6

Thanks for all the posts!

1 Like
#7

I appreciate all the feedback and candor @boxalex. Best wishes. I hope we win you back.

2 Likes
#8

Too bad m8, but we had it coming I guess.
Although we didn’t allways agree, for example the asics, we allways threated eachother with respect.
Admired the way you kept respectfull towards others, that weren’t so respectfull of your opinion.

We talked about it last night a little, and both had the same feelings.

For the ones that care ( could be no one, don’t mind ) I also quit Zcash.
Most of the reasons you put down I agree with, but for me the final descission was the whole Ycash thing and how some people reacted on that issue.

They state clearly
[Important Note: The Ycash project is completely independent from both the Electric Coin Company and the Zcash Foundation.]

Yet 1 of their official outlets is this forum.
It kept me wondering and wondering why that is. If you wanna fork, go ahead, but start from scratch, you now lift on Zcash and their resources. Asking which algo to use, not answering about that there allready is a Ycash coin ( Jeps, its dead, but it’s there ) a compagny that’s in finance with the same name, who will pay the legal fees if they gonna sue ? Zcash ? Why not, it’s on their official forum. Have people looked into this ?
How long will it be friendly ? Zooko can talk about 1 community all he wants, in the end it comes down to the fact there are 2 coins. And since Ycash is trying to get the " houseminers "back, it will be 2 communities, 1 Asic driven ( Zcash ) and 1 Cpu \ Gpu driven ( Ycash )

And I also hope @kek wins his bet and people be will rewarded in the future for Hodling their Zcash . All the best for all around here and so long :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#9

Brooo, we never got into a discussion, don’t leave yet, let’s insult eachother… at least once!

Best of luck and I wish you all the peace in the world ^^
You’ll be missed!
POS FTW

2 Likes
#10

This is another vote on asic friendly or not asic friendly.
I hope GPU version zcash will win.

1 Like
#11

it won’t, mostly because the team behind this “friendly fork” are complete amateurs.

@boxalex when i win the bet - you should send me something from germany i cannot get in the USA. if for some bizarre reason i lose; i’ll send you the best whiskey i can get my hands on (good ole kek magick does not lose bets). i’m sure you’ll be posting in the “radical to the moon” thread again soon enough! don’t be a stranger!

5 Likes
#12

What was the bet again?

#13

kek: ZEC will be in the Top 10 by market cap end of 2019
me: ZEC won’t be in Top 20 by market cap end of 2019

in case it’s rank #11 to 20 nobody wins …
We made the bet nearly half a year ago, ZEC was than back on rank 17 or 18 …

2 Likes
#14

I am still in Zcash, but it is hurt to see how your balance is down down down down and down down aaaaand down down down…

3 Likes
#15

While I think Zcash could perform better (in terms of marketing and acquiring new business opportunities), I am still a huge fan of this Coin.

For me personally, it is not an option to turn my back on this project; I hold quite a lot of ZEC and other Coins and I am curious to see where the market will lead us.

4 Likes
#16

Wow, you’ve got so many points to leave Zcash…this is your choice, good luck to you too)

1 Like
#17

It was interesting to read your opinion, good luck!

1 Like
#18

So sad to see you go, I used to think same like you, but sometime I still come around the forum to see how the project is developing/or dying :smiley:
(Just because I still hold some ZEC :joy: )

1 Like
#19

Think that the price of bitcoin before its first halving. Zcash is not a cheap coin.

#20

That’s ok and everybody has its own view on different matters. As i said allready, crypto is a business for me, it’s not just a hobby. Doing a business someone has to take to consider with many factors. While i allready said that i personally like ALL ECC & foundation memember, the idea of a top notch privacy coin and somehow still feel conneted to ZCash these are subjective feelings. For a business all that counts are numbers and these numbers tell me that we are on the wrong path for longer now…

Monthly the Founder Reward ensures 43,750 ZEC for the ECC Company, Foudation, Employees, Investors. That’s a huge amount.
Today about $2,625,000 funding monthly.
Exactly 1 year ago it was about: $13,125,000 funding for April 2018
Exactly 2 years ago it was about $4,375,000 funding for April 2017

That’s a huge amount of money for funding, development, marketing, whatever. From my personal point of business view this amount of funding doesn’t satisfy the results so far, neither in marketing, nor in adoption, not in business opportunities and even not the current development.

IF you see what other projects with a fraction of the ZEC budget achieve someone has to ask the question if all the funding is really used the best way it could be used? Here i have my doubts, hence my faith into ZEC gets less and less.

Now we even have the paradoxical case that someone should think that after 20% of the Block Rewards are the Founders Reward that everything would be done to have a more stable price as the ZEC price directly reflects the available budget. But indeed just nothing marketing or marketing influence wise …

For you holding a lot of ZEC it makes sense to continue to hope of course. I sold ALL my ZEC when i realized that the price will go down short-mid term at ~$120 which was a good decision as today buying back ZEC would result in double as much ZEC at the $60 current price. Don’t get me wrong, i’am all for holding, but it must make sense, there must be an incentive to hold, not just pure personal hope and feeling. I know this is not a popular view as most of you unfortunatly bought in at higher as todays prices and/or mine mostly at a ROI lose so it’s more than normal that everybody has hope things price-wise will change soon or late…

In the past, every time i kept holding a coin due feelings it went out bad and i changed my approach from feelings/hope to pure numbers/incentives/logic, not that this is a garantee as well, but it serves me since than way better.

Maybe here i personally have some psychology advantage as we are 6 friends which got together and made an investment into mining facility (with 100 asics than back) and of course buying coins. Our investment is a mid 6 digit number. And while my other 5 friends don’t have a clue what happens on the net, leave a lone crypto they have 100% faith into me and leave all decisions up to me. I said this is an advantage in psychology because as a responsible person i can’t make decisions just based on feelings and hopes and lose our all investment money. Just as a side note why feelings in business are not a real good advisor.

Some months back i came to the conclusion that ZEC/BTC mostly will get as low as 0.0065-0.0070 BTC (can’t find that post right now but than back ZEC/BTC was around 0.015 if i remember right) and i thought i will buy in again at these levels and hence tought to stay meanwhile here. Today we are allready at 0.011 means half way my prediction came true allready.

But thinking/planning further i realized that there is so far no incentive that will give us a push the next 2 years expect bolt and block halving.
Now Bolt will have some minor impact but not much as hoped as the competition and new coins come up with more and mostly better things while more and more coins just integrate privacy features for free making them automaticlly competitors soon or late.
The block halving will have a very little impact as well. I have seen on several communities big hopes in the block halving because they compare it falsely to Bitcoin, but an altcoin isn’t Bitcoin. ALL the block halvings i have seen so far on various projects resulted only in absolutly no to minor price effects due low demands and anyway way to high inflation rates. That’s just my observation of course.

Against this we have an expering Founders Reward and thus less or even vanishing development. Zcash company changed it’s name into ElectricCoin Company. While nobody thought about it in my opinion it could be a sign that they are preparing for other projects and logically moving away from the Zcash company name at time. I just today saw that Zooko is for example as well on the advisory board of Tezos. The ycash fork and 1 community wish as well somehow fits into this picture somehow. The lack of real new innovative and in my opinion meager development targets as well could be a sign that the main focus isn’t anymore ZEC due the expiring funding in 2020.

From a pure logical and business point of view without any emotions/feelings it would make sense to work on a new project. ECC has maybe the best cryptographical team, by today huge exprience and with a new project where mistakes by design like the inflation/emission rate, consensus, algo, asics and most important the funding model could be corrected. A new project with such team would be mostly a huge success while ZEC funding is just stoping soon. As i’am a fan of pure straight logic my next prediction is that the ECC company is coming out with a new project latest in 2021 and the foundation alone will have to take care about Zcash, without funding of course.

I wrote all this due the “turn my back on this project” in your post. I’am not just turning my back to it, but i have to ensure that one of my online business (crypto) will survive and has returns of our investment. IF it was just a hobby and my investment just some $10,000, no problem, stick and hope, but that’s not my case. In a risky business like crypto full of scam artists, fraud shemes and traps someone must allways have his guard on and be very sensible for signs, red flags and such like.

Remember when i brought in the fact/discussion that most of our reported volume is fake and got attacked and laughed for 6-7 months ago? Today we know that our real volume is just a fraction of the reported one and as predicted it’s more hurting today as it helped than back and it will get even worse when someday the whole fake volume is being removed from these coinmarket stats sites and when a sudden we went from $500,000,000 to just below <10,000,000 per day … I mention it because this has influence on price as well and is a sign in my book.

However, as i still like the project at a whole i hope i’am wrong with everything, no problem, but i doubt i’am.

@kek , i’am german but live since many years in Bulgaria due tax reasons (10% income tax here) and all my businesses are in Bulgaria. So i hope it’s ok in case i lose the bet i will send you something very orginally and top notch from Bulgaria. I admit your spirit and that you still think you win the bet, makes things more intriguing. I think in my whole life i lost at most 10 out of 1000’s bets, so you have a hard opponent on this one, lol. Just for the records: Todays rank: #24, 15 ranks to go for you…

2 Likes