Creating a thread to discuss https://twitter.com/least_nathan/status/1262875104079306753
Imagine network upgrade where sending to t-addr is not possible anymore. What will happen? Hypothetical scenarios that can happen:
- Exchanges delisting ZEC
- Exchanges are forced to support withdrawal to z-address.
- Zcash becomes most private & privacy preserving cryptocurrency.
- Zero hate & 100% love. No more trolling - gives developers & community peace of mind.
- Surge in social activity & chatter about Zcash.
There are lots more, …
any thoughts or takes? If we get +ve community around this idea, this can be done? The earlier we do it, the easier it is.
@kek @ChileBob @mistfpga @aristarchus what do you all think?
If one big exchange went full zaddr it’d get the revolution started, they would benefit massively from attention & media chatter, others would have to follow or risk losing business. I would certainly switch exchanges.
Forcing it has risks, encouraging it is better - but that’s just my 2 zats worth.
agree that may be the “domino” that really starts moving things along
here’s my opinion on transparent addresses:
i’d like to see privacy by default; as-soon-as possible! privacy features are ZEC’s main selling point, and don’t think users should be forced to practice coin control to properly utilize zcash.
exchanges like kraken that list XMR should support shielded ZEC. i’m okay with transparent addresses, but don’t believe T should be the default. also, have a feeling there’s a lot of zcash users out there that don’t realize the difference between Z/T addresses.
@dontbeevil I think its better to encourage z address adoption by making it the easy default for users but not forcing it at the protocol level. I think I agree with @ChileBob that
If people are using t addresses because there is some friction in using z addresses then we need to remove the friction so that there no longer any reason to want to use a t address.
I’d go as far as ‘adding friction’ for t-addr usage while ‘removing friction’ for z-addrs.
An outright ban or essentially hard-forking away from t-addrs would freak me out.
What are the remaining friction points for using z-addr?
(i know it is not supported on hardware wallets yet -soon it will be).
I consider t-addr as a tech debt to Zcash. At some point, sending to “t-addr” needs to be disabled.
What are the reasons for having continuous support for “t-addr” ? Is it for turnstiles?
@joshs have we had any conversations with major exchanges about z-addr support for withdrawals?
Maybe we can ask smaller exchanges to apply for a grant to integrate zaddr.
Open question: What’s the incentive to support zaddr withdrawals for any exchange?
Gemini exchange mentioned they will support withdrawl to zaddr when they announced launch of ZEC on their exchange: https://gemini.com/blog/gemini-is-now-the-worlds-first-licensed-zcash-exchange
I think its 'cos there’s still work to do on shielded multi-sig ? Don’t think that’s ready yet ?.. not sure.
Transparent migrations do not require transparent addresses at the protocol level, though it’s my understanding that the default software tools don’t presently support this.
Technically, at a protocol level, there isn’t a “default” for Z or T address use at all, they are treated equally.
The only “default” action that is required is all coinbase transactions must first be sent to a Z-address before it can be spent, so in that regard Zcash is “private by default”. However, once that has happened, then it is entirely up the users who interact with the Zcash choose whatever addresses they use. First steps often being for the pool to distribute ZEC to miners, and miners to then to do whatever miners do with thier Zcash.
The friction to using Z-addresses used to be CPU/RAM overhead. Now that that has been solved the friction has become the tooling/code for smartphones/apps, engineering overhead (initial and ongoing) for a major player like an exchange to switch, and possible hesitation by exchanges due to regulatory concerns.
That said, any exchange which currently supports any coin with privacy features (regardless of the strength of that feature) like Monero, Dash, Verge, etc… (IMHO) should support Z-addresses.
We can take some pages from “how https became standard” & apply it to zcash - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTPS (check browser integration section).
First thing to do is make wallets show a warning when they are sending ZEC to t-address. cc @zooko @amiller @tromer @nathan-at-least @daira @str4d @adityapk00 wdyt?
Also do we have a wallet feature that automatically turns t-addr to z-addr?
Great idea! (looks for the REALLY LIKE THIS LOTS button)
EDIT: Zecwallet already sends change to your z-addr automatically, which is pretty good.
I’ll have to think about the t address warning, but note that Zecwallet Lite automatically sends all change and shields all funds to z addresses.
That’s awesome! Thanks for building the feature.
Yes. There is one that is currently planning to add support for withdrawals to shielded addresses.
Good discussion on Nathan’s Twitter thread! That’s exactly what is needed.
Tracking status of some major features required for zaddr growth & t-addr future deprecation:
@gtank what’s the status of shielded multi-sig?
@acityinohio do we know the timeline (projected milestone dates) for shielded Zcash ledger app?
Does anyone know username of zondax: https://zondax.ch/zcash.html#milestone-2
There should be a FROST update soon / within the next few weeks — stay tuned!
Re: Timeline/project milestone dates for the Ledger app, you can see the expected status at the grant platform page for the project here:
I expect we’ll see a Milestone 2 update by end of June.