So here is another problem with ASICs. You can order a ASIC and you have to wait a month or 2, then while waiting, the coin you were buying it for says we are forking away from ASICs. Now you are stuck with an expensive space heater when it arrives.
This is what they did for Monero, pretty shady business tactic to sell them AS IS and with no warning on thier page that they might be useless when they arrive. Why would you currently support ASICs, they are so much risk right now. I guess people just see the carrot and not the stick?
I think it’s important to keep in mind that mining with PoW coins were designed to be variable. If mining becomes unprofitable from time to time, some miners will drop out and others will mine at a loss, which in turn reduces the difficulty. When prices increase, or the difficulty drops to become more profitable, those miners will start back up.
Mining was also never meant to be a source of guaranteed profit. It’s a competition that has projection and risk involved. Hardware advancements and new mining software have always and will always attempt to gain an edge in this process. It’s nothing new - the ASIC is, as it was for Bitcoin, the next stage of this process in my opinion.
Yup, and I think that’s why they increased the order limit from 1 to 50. I don’t think they were getting as high or market adoption as they thought they would. So instead they are letting those willing to buy to get more.
Though, I think the Z9 has broader uses available for other coins that have not yet declared they will take ASIC resistance or not (like HUSH) so it’s not an entire loss for those people if ZEC decides to emergency fork.
basically all sums up to, even with risk…“The ASICs are coming! The ASICs are coming!”
Oh boy…a “philosophy of mining” post…a dangerous rabbit-hole indeed. I have a nice response to that (shocker I know) but probably should be in another thread (or even probably the Market sub-forum as it pertains a lot to the price, volume, and adoption).
I guess nobody really knows for sure. However, most times it’s mentioned that a batch there is about 10.000 units. I have no idea if it’s true or not, honestly, just writting it here as it’s the number most often seen/mentioned when it comes to releases/batches.
So Let’s assume 10 000 units, that means 100 000 000 sol/s, while the network hashrate is 400-500 Msol/s.
So, the ASIC’s share would be 15-20% of the network.
Even if the numbers double, 25-30% of the network, I don’t see this like a threat of decentralization…
We can debate this for years.
Let’s just fork off video cards and ASICS altogether.
I mean. I keep hearing about decentralization.
Have you looked at gpu prices lately. Back at msrp!!!
These huge mining farms are just going to start scooping these up by the hundreds now that they are affordable.
They are going to crush my two rigs.
I think we should go back to cpu mining. That’s real
Decentralization, everyone on the world can essentially mine again.
Who wants to regress with me???
This is a sarcastic post. As I am for ASICS as I believe they are the natural progression of a healthy ecosystem in a growing successful project.
Even though I am a current gpu miner, I will buy z9’s and point my rigs elsewhere to help another coin start it’s journey
This would be valid IF all Asics of this batch would mine Zcash, but i doubt every Z9 would be on Zcash. But to be fair we as well do not know the exact batch size. I have done some searches and as said, the most common believes are 10.000 units per batch, but to be fair and honest, no evidience and proof for that either. But 10.000 units is not a small amount as well.
That’s one thing many aren’t thinking.
Looks like zen cash are waiting a while
Komodo is not forking and I think hush is not either
Also zclassic which is almost dead, but still has value and not forking.
These machines will not be focused on zcash.
The majority…yes I would say.
Or the 5 people who looked at your question didn’t really know the answer and those of us who “might” be able to answer have been pre-occupied in these threads. I’m sorry you didn’t get a response as fast as you wanted (1 day old post). Try to be a little patient, your not the only person asking questions, making suggestion, debating policy, etc. I’m sure “someone” will see and answer, help, direct you to what you need.
I did some research the last hours as i got curious as well how much units a batch is. From the information i found, beside the common used 10.000 Units it seems that Bitmain is actually not releasing batch sizes of the same amount but splits it more like "Total possible asic production versus actual demand.
I found some statements:
First D3 Batch only 250 Units, while the 2nd D3 Batch allready had 3.300 Units and the last batch for 2017 35.000 units sold over several months.
While the batches for the S9 SHA256 miner seem to be steady at 10.000, maybe because it’s their working horse.
For the L3+ i found 500 units for the octomber batch and i definatly would have awaited a bit more here.
The APW PSU Powersupply Batches are 5.000 from October including 2.500 unsold from the August Batch.
P.S.: I’am far way from saying these are exact numbers but they seem to come from a good informed source (no guarantee of course). The same source is as well claiming that the X3 is still mining on Monero by the way with extraction of the new compiled X3 firmware code.
However, even with these numbers and digts we still have no idea how many units for a given model are made, but i’am pretty sure it’s not a fixed batch unit amount now.
Edited for some additional information on the bitmain blog which seems to valide my guess that they have no fixed batch amount of units but produce more or less on demand:
We do not sell our machines continually. We sell in batches, based on our production schedule. When a batch is sold out there are no more sales until the next batch is announced.
We do not reveal the number of miners we are producing, or future production plans. If such information is advertised or claimed, it is not from us and is not reliable. Customers should not make purchase plans or decisions based on such claims.
Money is needed for any option, I wanted to mine bitcoin in 09, but my PC was so terrible on the lowest possible settings I would get 2 fps playing WoW or Diablo II. Even though all I needed was like an $800 computer, I couldn’t afford it and missed out. By the time I could build a gaming PC, ASICs had taken over. The cost argument can apply to a gaming PC too, although it is more affordable and multi-purpose than ASIC. Since most GPU mining is pooled, its not nearly as decentralized as people make it out to be sadly, but it does offer the ability to make it more decentralized than an uneven spread of ASIC miners.
I’m not trying to argue in favor of ASICs, but as things stand it’s not going to implode the network or anything. Bitmain wants to make money, so it’s in their best interest to not abuse that power more than price gouging and pump and dumps. I’m by no means a fan of them developing ASIC for equihash, and it will affect my mining as well, but I knew it was only a matter of time before they entered the picture.
EDIT: Other issues with ASICs are the heat, they pump out a ton in comparison, which can require structural changes, etc. For those that want to get into ASIC mining. 5 L3+'s that I had setup at my parents before selling them produced enough heat to move from my dad’s shop, into to the garage, and then into their house during the winter. During the summer, I had to cut a hole into the side of my dad’s shop in order to directly vent the heat, and even then it could still get hot.
I think the ZcashCo needs to clarify the mission statement and all this weaseling needs to stop, are you for mining on generally available commodity hardware (GPU’s and CPU’s) with ASIC resistance? or you welcome ASIC’s as that is what above user is proposing and is no different from Bitmain apart from don’t think they have the volume capacity or reach i.e. all issue with importing and distribution world wide.
I think this is besides those question(s) to be honest. The problem most of us have with the current climate with ASIC is the fact that the only real player IS Bitmain. If this company can help break that strangle hold, and decentralize that aspect, then ASIC becomes much less of a threat to be honest. If you can source them from one, two, or twenty different suppliers, and they are all equitable in price and performance…you have real competition and the entire dynamic suddenly changes.
IE Bitmain decides not to produce another batch for awhile to drive the demand up. But Company A in France, Company B some place in South America, and company C somewhere in the USA all keep on producing and selling them then Bitmain either has to keep producing or lose market share. They would no longer be able to dictate to the market anymore.
