i copied it over as i have no idea how to move it to be honest
I don’t get why lot of GPU miners complain. Everytime i ask some kind of question in other forums i feel slap in my face hearing that they have a very dynamic system and if they like they could change cryptocurrency when they need to (BTW i’m mining with GPU too). Well I may say to them that this is the time, because of course the problem is not about Bitmain or the centralization, but about their system is going to be obsolete in mining one of the most valuable currency of these times. I red lot of thread against @zooko, that he is selfish and he thinks just about his interest, but are those complainers better?(don’t think they care about the currency most than their wallet so…) I’m mining with GPU too, but i understand that is going to be to much expensive and difficult in the future either, GPU price is overload and it will grow as the request of it. Bitmain is a business factory as AMD or NVidia, and as those two make GPU, Bitmain make Asic that seems to destroy the Sol/s rate of GPU’s. So what is the deal? to have a better machine that do a better job with fastest result and bigger profit? the problem is that the life cycle of an Asic is shorter than the GPUs? Well, Asic seems to mean also bigger profit and money to invest in better machine that will be out in the future, so you could invest to improve your system. I have started with 12 GPU and to mantain a costant income, i had to double them. now with half of the money i could have the double of income and i don’t see the problem, i’m just waiting that who has to do it, pick up a position so i will see if is worth buy the Z9 and put my GPU into another currency.
Well if it wasn’t for gpu miners, Zcash would not be where it is! Back when Zcash started Bitmain didn’t make a Asic for Zcash! So you got 12 gpu’s. How about the ones that say have 200 or even 1300 gpu’s! Plus zooko did say in writing that Zcash would be Asic resistance. He try’s that say that’s not what he meant but it’s in the writing. But it seems that he did say it to keep the gpu miners mining Zcash back then. Now he’s like I don’t care about gpu miners go to hell. That’s why gpu miners are up set!!
I will think the same even if I had 2000 GPU, that’s not the point, it’s part of the risks of investment. and then again that doesn’t mean that you have to stop use them, you could use those to mine other currencies. for what i saw there are others currency where my 24 GPUs (12 + 12) can make almost the same profit, so… why not, i don’t have to care about the one that bought 1300 GPUs, i care about my profit and Asic seems to be the perfect match. and also if Zcash won’t Fork, you could be sure that there will be a big base of Asic miners that will continue what GPU’s had started. I think that in a way or another Zcash miner need at least know the position in this kind of war.
Well maybe all gpu miners should just stop sell off there hardware. So when new coins come out they have no chance of going anywhere. Because there will be no Asic to help them. But what do I know.
You miss the point. There is no need for anything what Bitmain or AISICS could bring into the game in a sense of making zcash greater/better/more reliable/more adoptable/more valuable. The only thing they bring is the frustration and a hard hit on the current community. And officials fail miserably at dealing with this situation.
Edit: corrected some “engrish”
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“Equihash is a memory-oriented Proof-of-Work, which means how much mining you can do is mostly determined by how much RAM you have. We think it is unlikely that anyone will be able to build cost-effective custom hardware (ASICs) for mining in the foreseeable future… we may change the Proof-of-Work again, if we find some flaw in Equihash or if we find another Proof-of-Work algorithm which offers higher assurance.”
When you need it, ZEC is resistant to ASIC, GPU miners come.
When you don’t need you, ZEC is more complete in ASIC, GPU miners get out!!!
Kill all the gpu miners.No credit for developers!!!
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I think this past week’s troubles surrounding Mt. Gox and it’s supposed sell-off show the power Bitmain can and does hold over any cryptocurrency it makes miners for. With effective control of 80% (yes the number is slightly less over the long term because of already mined coin) of Zcash’s supply (which is I believe more than what Mt. Gox is reported to have held of BTC’s supply) they can easily pump and dump the price of Zcash with impunity.
This is a very real concern, Bitmain WILL hold a monopoly over mining Zcash. Considering all but one other Equihash coin is forking, all of that potential hashrate will be concentrated immediately on Zcash and speed up the centralization of Zcash’s hashrate.
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Just a quick note to GPU miners. You always use the word “community” but it’s funny that I posted a question that is interesting towards adoption and simple to use interfaces and no-one pays attention: SPV and Z transactions 0 responses.
Clearly, for you, community means get coins no matter if it’s actually easy to use or not or the lorn term view of Zcash.
That’s because currently there is no other “community” besides miners and traders. Adoption rate for the intended final purpose is still basically non-existent.
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There is no use fighting. I agree with zooko. This whole thread is people going back and forth with nonsense. Only A handful Of useful posts.
I say bye bye gpu miners. And I’m one of them. For almost a year now. I have a lot invested in my little farm.
All The whining!!!. Look at any big coin, starts off as cpu mining, then moves to gpu mining then moves to asic mining. This is natural progression.
People. These machines run 300 Watts. That’s one gpu. For 10,000 sols
So what, ASICS take over, gpu’s leave. The net hash does go up, so yes z9 is going to make less. Until you factor in the the power use.
I have two 13 cars rigs. Run just over 4K watts of power. I only make 13,00 sols. To run my gpu’s. It cost me $300 a month.
Now take a z9 only cost me $30 to run for just under the sols.
So when the diff goes up, I may be making less, but the electricity savings makes up for it and then some.
This is progression. This is power savings
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Also, if I remember correctly, that statement originally said “we WILL change the Proof-of-Work again”. It was recently edited to have less absolute language since this discussion began.
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Well even if we could be pro or cons about Asic or not Asic (that’s just a matter of opinion and life is fun because people have different opinions). I think there is a position that has to be taken, hope it will be taken soon.
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@Tonic1080 that is not accurate, Zcash Company has never said “will” do anything. Please see my post here: Cryptomineds Video
This argument doesn’t stand. You are saving on power at the beginning, but you are starting a new rat race against other miners (including bitmain, who now doesn’t make so much money on bitcoin mining as they used to, so they are looking for a “new markets” to reign), so in a coming weeks and months you will need more Z9s to maintain the profits (not to mention you will be mining with Z9mini against Z9maxi which Bitmain themselves will use at the time → btw. this fact alone makes the whole thing UNFAIR!)
Or do you think that ASICs saved huge amount of power since they were introduced to bitcoin network? 
Come on guys… if (some of) you are being paid by bitmain to participate in these discussions then fine, but if you are not, then do a more thorough thinking about the matter.
Regardless of semantics about it, Zooko himself has acknowledged that Zcash has made such implications to the community and never worked to act otherwise or correct the narrative.
This horse has been beat to death on the forum so I’m sorry for posting it up again, I get that it’s a LONG thread of posts to read through but it’s in there if people want to go looking.
Tonic1080, you know people are not going to back up and look and it’s not like you to give links (hard proof) to back up what information you are trying to make me believe, (the earth is flat darn it!, and when at the end, its a giant instant tunnel like in pac man that puts us on the other side)
I believe the post was he was told by experts that that EquiHash was not ASIC resistant but he was also told that it was resistant by others. So he choose to believe the side that said it was resistant. He then stated it looks like he was wrong and should have listened to the experts who said it would one day be solved.
So without ASICs being massed yet, the difficulty of Zcash has been slowly rising. Using your current rig and if no ASICs joined and ramped up difficulty, lets assume DOUBLE the current difficulty for pricing(big jump)…About $12 a day. so you are makeing about $25 right now.
Lets see what ASICs will make at a modest 5x difficulty which we will easily hit once they start massing on the network…About $6 a day…and wow with Zcash being down again, Z9 mini only makes $31 a day currently. Down $10 a day from a week ago, Good luck to the people buying Z9s.
So you would make more if ASICs stay off the network, and Zcash stays to its word of ASIC resistant. Why would you want ASICs to push your GPUs out? You will lose in the end…Already 70+ days to ROI on Z9 and only the price of Zcash has changed…
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I believe the Z9 will likely be about 120 day ROI due to the VERY likely significant increase in difficulty once they arrive. This is based on observation of other crypto that got overtaken by ASIC. Generally difficulty increase about 50% or more within the first month and continues increasing sharply. This is a risky time-frame because Sapling is scheduled for about 4 months from now and there hasn’t been any comment on how long it will take to fork ZEC if they choose to. Monero has shown it is possible to do something quickly so it doesn’t NEED to wait until December.
Currently, 30 and 90 day difficulty is down about 4%-6% at the moment for ZEC.
Another note of course is that you can probably count that ASICs being run by Bitmain are already on the network. When Monero did the emergency fork, the difficulty was cut in half. Maybe not all was ASIC but there is a lot of belief that a significant portion was.