Let’s talk about ASIC mining

Mining
2367

Really? Have a look at my most recent post in regards to Zooko having an Economic Conflict of interest that threatens what GPU Miners invested.
Are you going to say that’s not “relevant” as well?

If there is such a thing I suggest you compile your data (evidence) and make a separate thread about it. If you do that, I will read it and I might learn something new.

But if you keep changing the topic and watering down this discussion (I see you’ve been expanding in other parts of the forum), I’ll simply ignore everything you say as it is, irrelevant.

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2368

Do as you wish… It’s your prerogative, Vladmimir. I’ll stick to my prerogatives.

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2369

Do as you wish… It’s your prerogative, Vladmimir. I’ll stick to my prerogatives.

Good :slight_smile: And since both of us made our cases clear, lets see what others have to say

2370

Honestly, I could care less, sir. I’ve done nothing unethical or disrespectful except violate your “opinion.”

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2371

Actually that can change very fast. I guess in 1 - 2 months the situation could/will be totally different.

First of all we are not many discussing things here actively.

Second, there is a lot of hostility for the pro asic users from day one. Many even do not bother to write in such hostile, offending and not really technical but very emotional discussion.

Third, in about 4 - 6 weeks i’am pretty sure a lot of asic miners will join the forum when they begin to mine. Just normally. Right now there are no private Z9 miners, but this will change as soon as they are shipped and than just logical, many of interest in the project while mining, the same as you have.

Forth, even the research paper could/can change a lot when clear and pure facts and arguments are put on the table for Zcash’s best, not the miners best!! right now we are in 99% just discussing rumours, speculations, wild guesses, FUD, personal interests, and so on. Nothing really technical, which is actually bad as a technical discussion would be far more interesting than that 2000+ thread. But the view technical open topics seem to be of not much interest for the community anyway as it seems.

Fifth, you may underestiminate the private asic community if you think they won’t help grow a given project. Actually the private asic community has a bit more interest of having a successfull project they mine as they can not just switch away to the next best 975 coins minable coins on the 74 algos like every gpu miner can. This fact alone makes the private asic community more dedicated to a given project.

Sixth, as you mention all the gpu miners invested in zcash and as you like to play with numbers and percents. I bet only about 5% at most made such decision based on the Zcash project. Vast majority just joined later and mine here and there zcash when it’s on top of the whattomine page. Only thing i miss in your so emotional writing is the word “volunteered” for zcash to make it even more “skinny”…

Seventh, accusing the CEO of the project of watching his economic interest is just normal. He would be a total idiot if he did not watch the economic interest for the whole project and result of that is of course his own profit. Thx god it’s like that as we have seen all allready 100’s of devs without economic gains just abandoning a project when they feel like. So, nothing bad the CEO has an economic interest in the project, just as you and me as well have one. The difference is that it’s his company and his project and neither yours not mine, nor ours. Means his interest is more valid than ours and of higher priority, of course.

2372

Sure, cause Zooko will have added more to the fray who will also have a conflict of interest just as he does in order to TRY to collect DOUBLE dev fees with two chains from (ASIC and GPU).

The title of this thread does not appear to have anything to suggest it should ONLY be “technical.”

I don’t underestimate the private ASIC community. I “fear” their threat to centralized mining.

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2374

Did Zooko volunteer with no expectation for something in return? Do I have to? Does Zooko NOT have a conflict of interest based on his recent statements that appear to be a marketing ploy to try to get two chains (one ASIC and one GPU) in an effort to DOUBLE his dev fees?

2375

Why not. If the detailed research, the devs, the foundation, whoever, comes to such conclusion that it might improve the project to have 2, 3, 12 chains for security or whatever reason. Why not. The last i’am worried is the dev fee to be honest. As long as their is developement, evolution, upgrades, updates, improvements that help the project to go further ahead i’am fine with a dev fee for every chain.

Why is that even a concern for you is out of my common sense and logic. Double chain does not mean automaticly double income. Actually it’s risky and could, if unsuccessfull, mean even less fee than on a single chain. And it could be even stay the same. If the work and mining is halved for each chain than the dev fee would even not change. It’s speculation about something we do not know if it is even going to happen.
Zooko mentioned he could imagine to have 2 chains, NOT that he is working on 2 chains…

2376

Your being hypocritical with those two statements (first and second). First I’m “accusing” him of having a conflict of interest. because he too stands to benefit economically from two chains that he is currently actively marketing. You act as if I’m terrible for pointing out he has an economic interest and therefore a CONFLICT of interest against ASIC Resistance. THEN, in the 2nd statement you ADMIT he actually has his “…own profit (economically)” from his project if it were to go two chains (One ASIC and one GPU).

Bottom line: You appear to be dead set on refusing to have an open mind as to whether or not Zooko can also have a conflict of interest. You simply want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I wonder why?

He actually stands to profit more and while decreasing the profit of GPU miners.

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2378

I’am not. Either my English writing is bad, your English reading is bad or both combined, no idea what happened that you came to that conclusion.

I say and will all the time say, that it’s absolutly ok, if the main dev/CEO makes profit, no matter from 1 chain, 2 chains, 18 chains. Nothing i’am concerned about nor should be anybody else as long as the project gets further ahead and improvements are developed.

Seriously, no idea what of my writing are you referring to that i made different statements about that are hypocritical. Just impossible …

However, i’am not really willing to discuss a dev fee which i fully agree too and that in my opinion is fully deserved for such a good project, have in mind we are not talking about some shitcoin that never came up with something sitting on 0.00001 USD price that someone could/should argue about whatever dev fee.

2379

ROFL… Oh boy… You’re cracking me up. ROFL…

It’s LEGITIMATE questions. Also, it’s OBVIOUS to those who are familiar with the Dev Fee of 20% for 4 years that if Zooko gets his two chains (ASIC and GPU) which will DOUBLE his fees WHILE harming the economic earnings of GPU miners and NOT RESISTING ASIC’s as stated in the White Paper.

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2380

You act as if I’m wrong for pointing out Zooko stands to double his fees if we go two chains (ASIC/GPU). Then come out the next sentence and admit he will profit from two chains. I also pointed out those two chains would harm the revenue of GPU miners at the expense of Zooko receiving his DOUBLE FEE.

It’s quite simple to understand.

Here is the post I made for you to read again with an unbiased mind if you care to read it again:

Well, you currently have approximately 90% in favor of GPU’s and you appear to be standing up for the 8% who will NEVER grow to as high as GPU’s and the 2% who are undecided or don’t care.

WHY?

Do you not have an ECONOMIC INCENTIVE (Conflict of interest) with the potential for DOUBLE the Developer Fees?

The appearance of this isn’t good, Zooko. It’s just not, sir. YOUR OWN ECONOMIC INTEREST ARE ALSO AT PLAY HERE AREN"T THEY? Be honest now…

Your OWN economic interest is threatening those who have already invested tremendously for this project. I would have bought VEGA’s instead of NVIDIA’s to mine Monero instead of ZEC if I had known ZCash would not hold true to there declaration for ASIC-Resistance to the community. I believe MANY other GPU miners here would say the same.

While talking about others who have economic incentives to lobby one way or another, he (Zooko) also has his own economic incentive with double fees. Which would harm revenues of GPU miners to gratify his own “conflicted” interests economically.

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2381

ROFL… Oh boy… You’re cracking me up. ROFL…
It’s LEGITIMATE questions. Also, it’s OBVIOUS to those who are familiar with the Dev Fee of 20% for 4 years that if Zooko gets his two chains (ASIC and GPU) which will DOUBLE his fees WHILE harming the economic earnings of GPU miners and NOT RESISTING ASIC’s as stated in the White Paper.

Legitimate, maybe. Relevant - no.

…

But that’s my opinion, right? :wink:

2382

You seem to missunderstand what i have had in mind.

You are wrong making it your concern and even speculating if it will happen at all.

I will write it again, the last time by the way, it’s even not sure IF a second chain would result in double income.
If the 2nd chain is again for Zcash, like Verge for example, than the fee would be just the same as the max. supply would be the same. The dev fee would be double only IF the max. supply doubles. IF max. supply does NOT double or increase, dev fee won’t either.

Or as a general calculation: If the max supply is 25M, 5M are allready mined and 20M are going to be mined it wouldn’t matter if 1 chain is mined with 20M or 2 chains with 10M, the income would be the same because 2x10M is 20M, lol.

2383

Really? Try telling that to Zooko who is STILL actively Marketing the idea of Dual chains as we speak.

2384

I’ll say this again, this violates the declaration of ASIC-Resistance. Plain and simple… And threatens the revenue of GPU miners.

EDIT: This is funny watching “V” and “B” pop up at the bottom constantly. It’s two on one here at the moment. Oh well, The show must go on. :slight_smile: We’re all learning something though…

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2385

There was no need than to make 51 posts in 30 minutes for that sentence at all than. Just say it like that, plain and simple, and at least someone can agree that it’s a valid point from your point of view.

Sidenote: Remembers me of a local saying here: Why making it easy when their is a a difficult way.

How about you make a suggestion that Zooko lowers his dev fee to 5% so there are 15% more to share for the gpu miners? You would have a valid point again, even a bit strange one, but why not :slight_smile:

2386

lol…

Oh me… That’s “opinion” in my opinion. You have a right to it of course. But I can see your point of view.

I doubt he and the other devs go for that. GPU miners would also have to consider any long term affects to revenue with two chains of ASIC’s and GPU’s.

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2388

I suggest you edit that statement at the end a bit, just a good advice, 2-3 words there aren’t really good choosen …

2389

Thanks for your concern. But it’s too late… you quoted it! ;(

Oh well, if I get hammered for the irony here, it was nice knowing you all!

Best!

V.

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