I agree… that’s why I said, “As of late.”
As for me “attacking” you; it’s nothing personal. I’m simply pointing out WHY ASIC Resistance; just as many other GPU miners are discussing WHY. You may not like the reasons I put forth. They are not intended to appear as though they are attacks against you personally. Simply encouraging the Foundation and Company to maintain their declaration of ASIC resistance.
Lol, actually, in difference to you, i’am fine with whatever decision Zooko, the foundation, the devs, whoever makes. So the crying i see all over the time is from you gpu hardliners.
About crying, all of ProwdClowns posts togay are crying in my opinion. But even than, at least he has the balls to admit that it’s about: … And threatens the revenue of GPU miners.
And while i don’t agree with 90% what he comments and says, at least he is honest in his opinion and thoughts, no matter i don’t agree with them.
Just as a side note. When i registered to this forum in the beginning of this thread i got attacked from all sides. No problem at all, but exactly that behaviour forced me stay and stand up for my point of view.
Speculation… where’s you proof? You say they will not double there Dev fee. Prove it…
I see what you did there! 
The problem is… you are the one who claims someone has economical incentive to do smth. And so far you have no proof of that. And that’s smearing
So how long have you been mining ZEC?
Actually thinking about it, your main problem is for sure THAT some pro asic people are in the forum at all. It would be a easy to pressure Zcash and Zooko without any resistance. And it would be easy to spread rumours, FUD, conspiracies if nobody is here to correct it from time to time…
That’s the only thing you are right, i have another agenda, but the agenda is more not to let pass all that FUD, false information and better don’t question this or i have to make 3 pages of posts i had to correct with false information …
I even will answer you this one honestly. Since December 2017 …
I wonder why?
Did ASIC’s declare to respect ZCash ASIC resistance?
Were ASIC’s forced by ZCash to invest into an ASIC knowing the risk of a fork?
Did I not say I support dev fees in an older posts? Did I not also request the same “support” from the developers? Did I not point out the developers should not only point out the “economic incentives” of GPU and ASIC miners but also consider their own “economic incentives?”
GPU miners have BEEN here since the beginning and we respectfully requested the developers support their declaration of ASIC resistance. ASIC’s are coming out of the closet and want acceptance into the fold of a coin that declared RESIST ASIC’s. I suppose I too would walk on my tip toes and hope they would violate their own declaration.
As for ZCash crashing, being left alone, etc… I have pointed out WHO is the “majority” in this “community” to the developers. We are simply pointing out how that “community” can be damaged if they go against their declaration of ASIC Resistance. I personally have not said it will crash. I have said I will have nothing to do with it if it does not maintain ASIC resistance. Why should I, when it goes against my views on mining decentralization?
I personally have not blackmailed ZCash. I don’t see how my stating I will have nothing to do with the coin would be considered a “threat.” Simply pointing out what will occur with the majority of the “community” that’s rallied behind the project if we are discarded to the wayside.
As for Pro ASIC dumping ZCash, that’s their prerogative. If GPU miners chose to boycott and dump their ZEC, it’s their prerogative. Simply another example of what I’ve said all along that if the declaration of ASIC resistance is not kept, they risk damaging their community because they violated consensus.
Is Zooko potentially doubling his dev fee with a double chain “conspiracy theory?” Has he come out and said developers will not collect fees on the second chain? Even if he did, doing such a thing violates the very declaration of ASIC resistance.
Community has to be “vocal” at times if occurrences arise to potentially threaten community and consensus. The consensus in the beginning was ASIC resistance. I can tell you if it does not maintain ASIC resistance, a LARGE portion of the GPU miner community will boycott ZEC. I know this from what I’m reading on GitHub, Reddit and BitcoinTalk.
If ZEC goes Pro-ASIC, it will be left with one large corporation mining their coin [All while having a threat of 51% attack]; controlling a large portion of the speculation market as well with pump and dumps; scaring the heck out of any others they want to bring into their new community; and ultimately the adoption of ZEC into mainstream will slow to a crawl. It will only become a coin for speculators and large ASIC farms in the hands of a few big mining corporations; all while throwing the betterment of humanity to the four-winds.
Yes, this is because ASIC miners don’t really care about the coins they mine, and there are also far fewer of them.
I admit i wasn’t aware that equihash should be handled like closed market available only for gpu’s. I don’t think any algo has a right to prevent whatever competition from whomever …
NO, absolutly nobody was forced to invest into an Asic. This is correct. And i bet nobody was either forced to make 10 rigs for Zcash. It’s a free market and everybody can choose where in what under what risks to investe, easy as that. Every Asic pro is aware of that, and every gpu miner should be as well aware of that. Zcash could even choose tomorrow to get POS …
[quote=“ProwdClown, post:2420, topic:27353, full:true”]
GPU miners have BEEN here since the beginning and we respectfully requested the developers support their declaration of ASIC resistance. [/quote]
What? While i agree that there are some respectfull requests towards the devs/Zooko, a lof of them is at least offending, smearing, blackmailing and whatever not. If this is respectfully than i would not like to witness unrespectfull behaviour, lol.
[quote=“ProwdClown, post:2420, topic:27353, full:true”]
ASIC’s are coming out of the closet and want acceptance into the fold of a coin that declared RESIST ASIC’s. I suppose I too would walk on my tip toes and hope they would violate their own declaration. [/quote]
I get your argument here and i think it’s a valid one to be honest. However, in a real world there is and always will be competition. Maybe some that have their own businesses, like me, are more used to it and therefor more openminded and easy about it as it’s normal in every business.
Rules change all the time. It has changed for the CPU miners, it is currently changing on several algos for the gpu miners and it will change for the asic miners. Rules, ideas, ideologies, everything changes all the time, call it progress, industralization, whatever you want. Neither me, nor you, nor anybody can stop it …
[quote=“ProwdClown, post:2420, topic:27353, full:true”]
As for ZCash crashing, being left alone, etc… I have pointed out WHO is the “majority” in this “community” to the developers. We are simply pointing out how that “community” can be damaged if they go against their declaration of ASIC Resistance. I personally have not said it will crash. I have said I will have nothing to do with it if it does not maintain ASIC resistance. Why should I, when it goes against my views on mining decentralization?
I personally have not blackmailed ZCash. I don’t see how my stating I will have nothing to do with the coin would be considered a “threat.” Simply pointing out what will occur with the majority of the “community” that’s rallied behind the project.[/quote]
My comment was generally and not quoting you. You can read through the whole topic again and than let me know how many threads, blackmailing attempts and whatever not took place. A whole bunch have threatend to get together and stop mining immediatly, the next bunch threatented to make a mass sale and dump the price, the next bunch to sell immediatly all, next one makes a video and hides some facts, next one … you name it. Come one, we all witnessed how far this got in this thread.
You are wrong here. No normal thinking miner will dump a good coin like Zcash. Only an idiot would dump the coin. Actually there is no difference in dumping btw. Asics and gpu’s. When you mine a shitcoin for whatever reasons you dump it, if you mine a coin with value like bitcoin, bitcoincash, dash, ethereum, zcash, you don’t dump it, expect if you are forced to pay bills. I personally in my whole miner career have not cashed out a single coin, not even 1 XVG, nothing.
Only if he doubles the max. supply and this is not easy done for sure. It’s up on what the 2nd chain will be based in my opinon. IF it’s like verge for example mining the same coin on several algos than the max. supply will stay the same and the dev fee of course as well as it’s bound to the max. supply. IF, and i have no idea what other possibilities are available or an option, eventually, but that would mean 2 different coins to have his fee doubled, can’t think about another scenario that would result in double fee.
Which is it, first you claim you don’t know who controls anything or who makes the decisions …now you say you know more than someone thinks you know. I have no idea what you know except that you said that you do not know who makes the decisions on keeping things ASIC resistant. Which is insane that someone would spend 100k in something that they have no idea who it works or who makes the decisions! So either you know and said that you didn’t to flame or you don’t know and spent 100k on something that you have no idea how it works.
It’s one of the two
No sarcasm at all, it was a 100% honest reply because there are several people here who are not first language english and they seemed confused that a response has been given
Opinion is opinion and a community who has come to a consensus is another thing.
So, if you choose to take those risks by infiltrating a community and breaking its consensus; only to see when it finds out and forks to get rid of you and maintain consensus, it’s wrong? Again, your opinion.
Really, how did you come to that conclusion if it’s not a secret?
When you explain me this you can add how much most gpu algo/coin hoppers care about their coins so i can educate myself a bit more 
Just as the developers can also lose their community and consensus to replace it with one big corporation dominating mining and speculation in the markets. Much of the community who were there from day 0 will leave; bringing adoption to a crawl and the betterment for humanity with a real privacy coin will have to be searched out elsewhere.
No, i won’t ever use words like wrong and right when it comes to a decision made by the dev team or zooko, never ever. Even if EVERY coin would fork away from all these 16 coins/projects on equihash i wouldn’t say a word that it’s wrong or right or crying about it because i know there is no garanteed right about mining whatever. And i’am not that arrogant to force a project to provide me ground for my mining equipement i bought with risk. Easy as that.
To use your words, that’s your opinion.
For those that only seem to get there information only from this thread / forum here…
ASICS are released in late June… and there will not be a fork before sapling which is in September
Even the Foundation says late 2018
debate all you like ASIC’s will be here for at least 4 months before and IF Zcash forks…
period, the end… mic dropped!
To correct it a bit. The Z9 announcement said “latest” in late june, but mentioned "most likely sooner!
I locked up the original texting:
The shipping for this batch will start on a first-paid-first ship basis on 20th June 2018 for orders that Bitmain has received full payment for. If the miners are ready before the estimated shipping date, we will ship it out ahead of the schedule.
You’ll be surprised what can and cannot be stopped.
I too have my own business since July 27, 1997. You and I know full well the subject of “competition,” I have a training product like no other in regards to teaching telephone technicians how to use their meter to identify and locate troubles. No other company in the world can touch it in my opinion. When competition comes along to try to convince my client to switch from me to them, my client weighs all the options and determine I’m their best fit both economically and quality of service; ultimately ending up maintaining a consensus with them.
Bottom line, if my business is threatened by an outsider, I’m going to do all I can to maintain consensus with my client and a win/win for the sake of “community.” That’s what’s currently taking place now. We have another company, so to speak, coming in to TRY to take our business by first breaking up consensus. They make promises of this and that all in an effort to steal our business from us. Not having it…
Also, it’s more than just “business.” It’s also about decentralization, and a vision of a humanity that’s FREE from the threat of corruption that’s so easily generated when centralization creeps in and begins whispering in ears. Governments are a prime example of this.
Some people actually stand by what they believe in. IF what they believe in shatters their trust, it can be painful and can ultimately lead to decisions made based off PRINCIPLE and not ECONOMICS.