Let’s talk about ASIC mining

Mining
2581

Many times you repeated the following claim.
Gpu miners dont want to risk buying an asic.
And simplifying the process of buying asics as if any one can .

Did you not know that z9 first batch was sold only using btc or ltc . Second planned batch only addedaccept wire transfer .
Can you see here the masses of the people or normal pc users have any chance for getting any of them
You talk about it as if any one can walk into a super market and get one . And the only thing holding them back is their fear of risk.
I lived once in a country that it took 2 months to get somethingfrom china .
While in austria,vienna . It took almost a month to ship a 3d printer and arrive and pay extra 20% taxes.
I remember sending a 3d printed figureen wighs 10 grams by post to some guy in egypt and they asked for 30usd taxes while it costed me 20 cents to print .
Asic that mines zcash that doesn’t accept zcash as paymeng and i have to sell zcash and get btc to buy it.
One extra information for you i ordered the z9 with extra 1200 usd price premium (conversion , taxes )
So i as a micro miner who belives in the tech and support the coin had to pay 33% extra .
Please stop those claims .
Asic is centralization , no equality . Hard to get for 90% of the people . And littrely not a single average person will even think of buying them .

8 Likes
2582

Wrong. Zcash is a digital asset that was produced by a for-profit company that asked us all to TRUST them when they created a product that they advertised would have certain attributes and features. One of those features was ASIC resistance. Even if Shawn edits his posts, and Zooko tries to say that he never meant to create the impression that Zcash would resist ASICs taking over the network…the VAST majority of us agree that this is the case.

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2583

Talking about the currency with trusted setup .
Hypocrisy at its finest

4 Likes
2585

Seeing some pennies in the very short term as a profit blinds people from looking forward .
When will this story end ?
Imo only selfish people who dont care for the future of the currency will accept the possibility, or to be precise the inevitability of handing the network to a handfull of people who have plenty of money to begin with.

Simple example, 15% of bitcoin hash is in Georgia the country . Owned by billionare Bitzena . He made his billions when soviet collapsed, he is georgian and doesnt hold georgian passport and gave it away even though he lives in georgia still . And holds french passport .
That way he pays 0 taxes to neither countries and more over treated as investor who gets his electricity cheaper than the poorest person in georgia in a trade free zone .possibly hiring only 5 people in his facilities.

Those are the ones that will control our ass .

Keep talking now about gpu miners fear of risk or asic is bringing innovation.

4 Likes
2586

I just read the Foundation statement here:

Forgive me but the statement has the tone of a wish washy PR piece. The Monero community did not equivocate or slow walk…they perceived the covert ASIC deployment on thier network as an immediate and existential threat and they dealt with the threat quickly and decisively which caused the Bitmain mafia to have to rush sell thousands of used cryptonote ASICs that they had been operating to secretly mine on the Monero network on unsuspecting noobs who now own expensive space heaters . This Zcash Foundation’s statement describes the path to eventually get to the point of “principled decision making” after careful “investigation” of course all the while making efforts to “gauge community sentiment” all resulting in something that might happen by late this year. What a joke. This reminds me of the way that the Banker’s pets in governments around the world talk to us about the scams they are perpetuating on the people with fiat money and fractional reserve banking. The bad actors know that with so many people they can spit in their face and those poor unsuspecting people will think it is rain as long as you tell them it is rain in a soothing polite tone of voice.

6 Likes
2587

I agree.

Bitmain is the king of nasty dealing. They are connected with the Chinese communist party thugs. How do you think they are getting all that cheap electricity. Make no mistake, all of the good “human rights” aspects of the adoption of crypto currencies are NOT what these Chinese elites are seeking as they seek to control blockchain tech.

2588

I wouldn’t be mining his coin otherwise?

2590

[quote="Tonic1080, post:2521, topic:27353,]
I think the underlying thing that most pro-ASIC are ignoring/getting wrong is regarding the investment incentive of “just make a new one secretly that will get around the changes”.

Of course algo changes will be useless if they aren’t considered a regular part of the blockchain management. For example, if there is a 6-month window between changes to the algo which are only known by the core dev team, then the incentive to make another ASIC by a 3rd party for that short window is significantly reduced.
[/quote]

I agree to this, but i as well think there is another problem. Current Asic Resistant projects are based on what is now on the market or what they think is enough. I’am pretty sure that the next generation mining asics will be far more adoptable and i have my doubts that a lot of programmers working on asic resistance have this not in mind as well. I could be wrong of course, just my doubts, only time will tell and show if in some time a given forked coin will have the same problem again or not.

[quote="Tonic1080, post:2521, topic:27353,]
Then people start saying “well, then they could develop an adjustable ASIC that can change with the algo change”. Well, then it’s not really an “ASIC” anymore is it?[/quote]

I would like to put in here 2 cases:
1.) The Baikal BK-X has been several times updated and is now able to mine 7 different algos, with 2 more coming, makes 9. So this one is not an Asic anymore? What is it than?

2.) The recent shipped B3 with the new Sophon BM1680 chip has got an update the other day, improving it’s hashrate with a whopping 30%. While it has nothing directly to do with changing algos, i think a lot can be done with updates and someone should not forget that the mining asics are as well advancing and dealing with whatever not to get better and better. Just logical after the manufactors would like to sell them.

[quote="Tonic1080, post:2521, topic:27353,]
ASICs are NOT a progressive step forward in technology, they are technically a step backwards. A universal and energy efficient CPU is significantly more advanced technology than a dedicated chip set that can only run one algorithm. Now getting a chip-set that can get the sort of performance that ASICs see WITHOUT being algo-specific…that would be a progression of technology. [/quote]

On this one i totally disagree with you. A progress should always be meassured on the field it’s used and not in generally. Your argument would be true if you compare an asic with everyday usage, but it’s not intended to that.
A mining Asic is intended just to mine and is doing this just better than whatever current hardward. So it’s a progress in the field of mining.
Following your argument i could say that the newest smartphone is a step back as my PC is way better in performing the apps. Sure, but the smartphone wasn’t intended to be a PC, so isn’t a mining asic made to render graphics at home, just as an example.

[quote="Tonic1080, post:2521, topic:27353,]
ASIC and Bitmain are synonymous right now. The theoretical argument of “generic ASIC vs. generic GPU” (which is what pro-ASIC seems to keep falling back to) is completely irrelevant as it is not the reality of the current market. The real discussion currently is “do we want a Bitmain run network or a GPU network”. If you cannot legitimately say “yes, I want a Bitmain centralized network” then you’re not really pro-ASIC in the current market.[/quote]

You should than add as well “do we agree to protectionsim”, “restrictions on who when why should mine”, “is it ok to have a closed/restriced market in a decentralized world/project”, and many more questions of course…

2591

I dont mind posting but he hides comment that are not by his wishes .

Can i buy that ASIC now…NO…i have to wait to september plus shipping wait …and Bitmain is mining NOW …and pro ASIC people here are ones who ordered before and hoping for $$$ because they will be just few miners on Zcash and they will be one off them.

1 Like
2592

Actually it has. Watching the last chart at

it seems that the private bitmain asic pool is the reason that flypool has no more 51%.
How does this not have anything to do with the current discussion?

Of course, it doesn’t fit in that actually exactly this pool is the reason that there is no more a 51% flypool dominance.
Actually from that chart it seems that bitmain currently has about 10% of the network hashrate on the zcash network.

Actually that chart is very interesting as accidently it shows a current positive impact of bitmains mining farm on several aspects:

  • it is not like many thought 50+%
  • but it’s enough to throw away another threat, the 51% flypool dominance which is way below 50% now.
  • bitmain does not mine it’s own with 100.000 Z9’s secretly… and has way less impact than many suggest so far.

This said the flypool issue very well contributes to the asic mining discussion here, but feel free to flag it.

2593
2594

This is all first generation algos…in few years they all be obsolete and replaced by dynamic algos …i now know that you are Bitmain die hard fan(you work for them 99.9%) but if Bitmain is the king off computing we would now have in our computers Bitmain graphic cards,Google ,Microsoft etc would use Bitmain and not NVIDIA chips etc.
Bitmain is powerful but not magicians…after 4 years they still cant make ASIC for ETH (70 billion $ coin) that is much more better then GPU…and that is 4 years old algo

2595

My thoughts as well. POS is the worst of all possible outcomes.

2596

If I were the only one who can manufacture ASIC miners, I don’t think I would mine on Flypool and pay 1% fee to them.

2598

While i see your point i think it’s a bad idea.

  • First of all it’s in the wrong topic, i can see how this has something to do with asic mining
  • Second, why shouldn’t a moderator with his own opinion not post? Not enough they are volunteering here dealing with whatever not, now even not letting them post their own opinions? Come one, they are free to have their own opinons as well and it doesn’t matter if he makes 1 post on topic or 100 posts on topic. On every forum, see bitcointalk for example moderators are actively posting, why would someone want to have something else?
2599

Bitmains Asics are always mining on their own Antpool.
In the time they are privately/secretly mining it’s a hidden pool at Antpool where the public has no access to it (isn’t even aware of it!), hence a private pool.

2600

Just in general. I wondered the last years the same. How can it be that some communist country be way smarter than nearly all western countries to get their hands on?
I think here we should blame our own governements, financial institutions and so on. The chinese rulers have just been smarter than our goverements and obviously a better future vision on tech.
I guess that’s the motivation of a runner up and newcomer trying to do everything to be as good or better. While the etablished powers/countries are just losing ground year after year.
While i’am not really a china fan, i admit they acted smartest in the blockchain tech so far.

2601

What correction is there ? Added bitcoin cash .
Is that it ?
This is what stuck in you throat that you had to reply on it . And even call it correction ?
This is called trolling and net picking .
Done talking to you. Take a break.

2602

Someone is trolling this thread all day, making so many posts that it hurts my thumb to scroll down through all the repetitive nonsense he is posting and @root should stop posting? That’s absurd. He is the among a few others who have something interesting to add to the discussion.

4 Likes
2603

Last time I checked, the Chinese government was trying to take down all mining business, and BITMAIN was moving to somewhere (Maybe Iceland) in Europe.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim? A simple link to some news article will do.