Also this Bitmain Hardest Hit ASIC Producer In China-U.S. Trade War | Cryptoglobe
It’s kinda unfair of you to complain about ASICs not being profitable enough when they are in stock and then complain that they are in such limited supply when they are out of stock. 
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funny too when people who used to call gpu miners cared only about one thing, in may, now are discussing ROI on nine z9 mini units.
Ok im confused, how is it unfair to complain that they are not profitable when they are in stock, and then complain that they are in such limited supply only a select few will be able to purchase them anyway, its the truth.
ASICs are a scam, they are only good at one thing, mining for profit, and most even fail at doing that.
I mean im still making between 140 - 190 dollars a day depending on difficulty swings so i mean i don’t see the scam here? yeah if the difficulty goes through the roof your profits take a hit but at that point id switch coins im not gonna mine something at a loss even with a dirt cheap electrical rate of 7 cents… Even when i GPU mined this coin i did it for profit like almost everybody else…
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People were making money every day with Bitconnect too…
When the new units come out and make all the old ones obsolete, you only have one choice, buy the new hardware with all the money you just made. You are stuck in a loop, but I wish you luck!
Talking about how much money you make per day without also saying how much you invested is giving us half of the data. You could have 10 or 100 ASIC machines, so saying how much you make per day without disclosing how much machines you bought tell us nothing.
I guess you run about 8 - 10 Z9, that could be an investment of 22’500.00 $ +/-
Let’s talk about economics? What is this thread? HOw do I mAkE PRoFit FasT?
This is why I think ASICs are a scam.
When the Z9 mini was released in June, it cost $2300. Less than a month later they annouced the Z9, they reduced the price of the z9mini to $850(a reduction of $1,450). For a unit that costs less than $200 to produce. They had no competition so they could set the starting price as high as they wanted. With only one other company making Equihash ASICs right now, they control the market and the price.
Today the z9 is $3200, do you risk buying it at this price when it could drop $1400+ next week? The Z9 probly takes less than $500 to make, ASIC producers are ripping everyone off right now, and you are buying into it.
Also the z9mini was released about 3 months ago and its profits have gone from $20+ a day to $3 a day. The mini is almost obsolete already, and its only been 3 months. Time to upgrade to the new asic for $3200.
If you are constantly racing to make your money back, and end up having to invest most the money you made in newer hardware because your ASIC stopped making money at the 3 month mark, where is the profits?
EDIT: GPUs have been mining for almost 3 years now without a new GPU making all the old ones obsolete.
I have 9 Z9s all im saying is they will be ran until they become door stops and pushed out just like the GPU’s were… I was asic resistant at first but why resist something that can perform the same job just more efficiently? In my eyes it isnt the machines that are the problem its the manufactures of said machines.
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It was 1.999 USD in June for Z9 mini batch 1… just putting the numbers right.
Whole hardware is the problem. Neither asics nor gpu’s make any sense to buy anymore for mining purpose by now…
Then by this statement what is the purpose of mining anymore? just buy the coin outright.
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Whats more efficient? …the job of proof of work AKA mining is to secure the network, thats its one purpose. ASIC do not do a better job at securing the network, in the current state of limited supply and monopilistic costs, they are much worse at its job.
Do they have more hashpower, yes.
Do they do more hashes per watt, yes.
Does this make them better or more efficient, NO, not at all.
Look at SHA-256.
Does this look more efficient to you? You spend anywhere from $6-12 a day on electricity to make $2-5. Welcome to the world of ASIC. More efficient! Saves power!
4,000w = $5.61 profit a day. Uses = $12.48
1,980w = $4.30 profit a day. Uses = $6.18
2,100w = $3.92 profit a day. Uses = $6.55
2,035w = $2.46 profit a day. Uses = $6.35
3,500w = $2.17 profit a day. Uses = $10.92
Compared to my GPU rig.
1,000W = $2.94 profit a day. Uses = $2.40
GPUs on a GPU network can be more effecient than ASICs on a ASIC network. Its all relative.
If your running on a treadmill and the Zcash difficulty is the speed of the treadmill. If you start to run(AKA ASICs) and the treadmill speeds up to adjust for the change, sure you are running faster, but you are still in the same position…
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you think gpu miners are greedy?
imagine zcash srsly switching to 144_5, watch what real greed is.
asic owners care about only one. gpu miners care much less. lots of reasons.
i wrote this before, arguments there were.
obvious now?
save the coin. mod algo to 144,5
For private home miners and mining farms there is none by now. There are simple reasons and predictions why it doesn’t make any sense anymore.
First of all hardware prices (gpu’s/asics) are still very high compared with what we can expect as profit and ROI. Did you hear anybody buying new cards the last months? Z9 mini batch3+ mostly won’t ROI either.
Second, daily there are projects switching to POS, it’s literally daily. Each project that moves to POS is generating additionally pressure on the profitability of all gpu’s or the asic on the given algo. Means if a coin on equihash is moving to POS it’s previous network hashrate gets contributed and added to the remaining miningable coins on the given algo. Same goes for gpu’s, just the effect is smaller as long as it’s not a major coin with huge hashrate.
We will get a taste of it when in some weeks ETH is reducing it’s mining reward, this will cause for sure a lot of shifting of gpu hashrate to other coins. Finally and latest when ETH is switching to POS the days of GPU mining profitability for private mines with normal electricity costs ends and private gpu mining doesn’t excist anymore. Same goes for asics, while i can for example still hold the X11, Scrypt and SHA256 miners profitable while mining unknown not listed coins it’s a hard task. And with every new more efficient hardware released the profitability goes away. Asic miners that can’t find profitable coins on X11, scrypt, sha256 and go only with whattomine or similars are for months in the negative allready. Maybe a price rise will temporary safe them, but that’s only temporary than as soon or late everybody has to pay for electricity and other expenses associated with mining.
Third, as soon as POW mining went away from cpu mining it got commercial it the meaning of attracking too big players we as private small miners can’t compete. None of us has the ability to make millions of investements in far countries to secure mega cheap electricity for example. None of us is big enough to make special deals at way lower hardware prices and and and… It was just clear that soon or late we will be droven out of the mining biz.
Than in my opinion we have another huge problem with POW mining rarely someone thinks about. It’s the algo itself. Sounds strange but if you think about which coins are safe of 51% attacks you quickly see it’s only the top coin on a given algo. All other coins on the same algo are actually not safe from so called 51% attacks.
For example ZEC is currently safe, but chaning the algo to ethash for example would mostly immediatly make it vulnerable as ZEC mostly wouldn’t be the top coin with the most hashrate.
This said we allready see nearly weekly successfull attacked coins on X11 (Asic), Scrypt (Asic), Lyra (GPU), CryptoniteV7 (GPU) and some other algos.
The only solution would be 1 coin on 1 algo but than again, this would only solve asic attacks but not gpu/fpga attacks that can be switched wherever they want. Everything with lower hashrate could be attacked without much afford and investment.
This said, many coins realize this threat and more and more are going POS to avoid exactly this potential attack vector. Now we could say what do we care about coins that are even not in to 25 by market cap and it’s not something that affects us. Actually every coin that switches to POS affects as if free up mining hash power that will be used elsewhere and will generate pressure on the hardware mining that given coin.
These are the main reasons why i think private mining has right now little purpose and will have in some months no purpose at all anymore. It’s just ending. I know, nobody likes that picture and prediction, but it’s just obvious it’s exactly this what the future is bringing.
There are more points i could add, but these are the most important direct ones. IF that’s not enough, than even have in mind that what we invest into hardware will not be worth much in future. For asics it’s clear that they use value as soon as profitability has dropped. But for gpu’s it won’t be much different, even it’s a bit better of course. As soon as the mass sale will beginn (i guess in about 3-6 months) the gpu market will be flooded with 2nd hand gpu’s, driving the 2nd hand gpu price down as well resulting in a huge correction of gpu prices which are currently overprized anyway.
And than of course we just have to admit that every dollar we spent on hardware has left the crypto space, and every dollar we spend on electricity has left the crypto space as well. The 2 main expenses are put into FIAT space, lost “forever”. Just imagine IF everybody had made all investments not in hardware/electricity but coins directly? the market cap would be mostly >5x bigger than now having a whole bigger impact worldwide than it has now. We all POW miners are responsible that large amounts return to FIAT actually hurting the evolution of crypto…
Hence why i think POW is flawed as soon as it went away from CPU mining, too bad i realized it myself just now and too late…
boxalex you are as always projecting your own point of view as it is the only truth.
gpu mining is not going anywhere.
yes, eth pos will shake all up, but this threat older than you
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That’s my logical prediction and of course own point of view, true. I don’t have the habit to live in the past but looking forward what future brings…
Time will show if my prediction (private gpu/asic mining is coming to an end) or your prediction (gpu mining is not going anywhere) will become true … Hit me up in some months 
And no, the threat is for sure not older than me. I’am 48, lol, just to proof i’am right … again 