you are right, again lol
Hum, your numbers are wrong. 
When AsicMinerValue says profits, it says profits, not incomes!!
Power costs are already counted.
If you look at the Asic’s price evolution, you would notice that it varies depending on:
- Competitor’s prices (Bitmain changes its Z9’s price each time that Innosilicon does for its A9 Zmaster)
- ROI
Selling an Asic 1000$ while it costs 200$ to produce in china is not a scam, it is the business, like a clothing brand sells a tshirt 20-25$ (or more) while it costs only 1-2$ to produce in Bangladesh…
The numbers for that day show profits of $6 (revenue of $18), at the cost of $12 of electricty costs. How are the numbers wrong?
Sure its a business, but if you look at the whole picture, you will be buying hardware that makes money on average for 3 months if your lucky, after that you have a space heater.
You will have to take all the money you just mined, and invest most of it back into new hardware, because your old hardware loses money now else you are done mining. The new ASIC model is always just a month or two away, and when it comes out, the current model becomes obsolete.
GPUs have been running for 2+ years without a new GPU pushing all the old ones out. Why spend all that money investing into new hardware every 3-6 months. In the current ASIC market, with the current price fixing ,almost zero competition and with the way they control the hashrate by controlling the amount of ASICs available, it sounds like a scam to me.
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What Bitmain does is not a scam, its just business that works one way only.
I would add: Why spend all that money investing into new hardware at all (no matter gpu/asic) with/into FIAT and out of crypto if that money could be invested directly into crypto/coin?
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II still dont believe POS will work. How will it deal with the transactions and the ledger? And how about private key theft?
You don’t have to believe, time will show if it works if we believe or not. About ledger and transactions, that’s mostly up to the design of the PoS or if it’s a hybrid.
About private key theft. Not sure what you mean exactly but right now i have private keys to my POW coin wallets as well. The current POS wallets i use are literally the same, just that they stake. The private keys are more or less the same… No idea if i understood the question correct, sorry if not.
Still buying GPU 
And yes, in bulk atm, only 1080 Ti with warranty.
My guess is there will be 1 more run atleast. Wanna be ready then and when it happens, all GPU will Roi 
And Eth bought some time, no Consta soon
Yep, 2-3 months delay for gpu mining RIP, lol. However, without a major/huge run they won’t ROI either…
Boxalex you are always talking about PoS as if it has no problems and will replace all of PoW. There is still issues using a pure PoS system that still needs to be addressed and have not been solved yet.
IMO PoS is just another system where the rich get richer just by owning most the money. How do you prevent exchanges from using the vast sums of money/coins they have on stock, or coins from founders rewards, etc.
Ethereum for example, the top 25 accounts own 21% of the total money supply. Do you think proof of stake would be fair when 21% of the staking would goto the top 25 accounts or .00000053% out of the 47 million accounts.
Ethereum is a well distributed coin also, other coins that are using PoS or moving to PoS have a much bigger percentage of coins in the top 25 accounts.
PoS does not seem like a good system for the average person.
And how is POW a good system for the average person? It was for us miners a good system, but that’s obviously ending, but it never was for the average person, absolutly never.
So if you are talking about average persons POS, POA, POI and all the other POS similars are a way better option than POW was and is for the average Joe.
If you own a GPU you could contribute and make a small profit with hardware you already own and need for gaming.
EDIT: 1 youtube video, and 10 mins later, you can be mining…also it would be nice if you addressed the other points I raised about PoS instead of attacking my opinion on the issue.
The definition of a scam = a dishonest scheme; a fraud.
When Bitmain sold the Monero miners after Monero said they were forking away from them, that is pretty scammy and it was dishonest.
They knew all the miners they were selling were going to be bricked in a month and did not mention this on the website when ordering…This is just one example of the scams this company runs.
I don’t attack you, i’am sorry if you are left with such feeling and i didn’t got personally in any way!!!
As soon as you have to pay for specialized hardware it’s not more for the average joe. How much could you mine with one of these HP gpu’s used in Laptops? You have to use electricity, you pay with FIAT for Crypto and pay with FIAT to maintain crypto… This alone should be a factor against the current POW.
Let’s take PoA for example, just because i have read a lot about it today. How cool is it to mini mine on houshold items, on your watch, cell phone, freezer, TV, whatever that has a ioT device? No electricity usage at all, super efficient, 100x+ more transactions/s as the best blockchain POW project.
About the richer get rich argument combinded with the centralization argument. Actually it’s reverse. POW coins get currently more and more centralized and the rich get richer as we, small private miners, have no real chance to compete with any of these big farms. With every difficulty increase a coin gets actually more centralized, step by step, slowly but surely. (I posted some interesting papers about this in the Zooko talks about POS topic), read them and you maybe see that the richer get rich and decentralization argument doesn’t hold up at all.
I don’t want to be speak again in Bitmains favour, but actually the X3 for cryptonite is right now the best Asic and most profitable one in mass usage, even way better than the new Z9 mini. Just as a sidenote…
I don’t agree with this in no way. First of all (just checked), the top 50 ETH wallets own 40% of ETH! This is everything else than well distributed in my opinion.
And this is not a POS problem, it’s actually a POW problem that it got that far…
Edit: IT’s the top 50 wallets that own 40%, not top 100 wallets!!! (edited!)
When I say attacked my opionion I mean you picked that out of a paragraph and ignored all the other points I was making. Not that you insulted me. No hard feelings.
When rich people invest into PoW they are buying hardware that has a limited lifetime. When rich people buy PoS coins, they own the coins for the lifetime of the network.
If they own 20% of the supply and the next closest person owns 5%, over time, the rich person will begin to accumulate more and more % of the network. This seems rediculous to me. Every year the rich person will own a larger percentage of the network over its lifetime.
Atleast with PoW that rich person would have to reinvest in new hardware in the future if they wish to keep the advantage. Its not just a one time investment that gives them a huge advantage for the lifetime of the coin.
Too tired today, but the rich gets richer argument isn’t the best one for sure, even less as their are a lot of possible mechanisms to stop/decrease it, for example max. amount stake, max. stake duration and some others. All things you don’t have with POW.
I’am not saying the argument of rich are getting richer is not true, but it’s less true/valid than it’s with POW, hence it should not be an anti POS/pro POW argument at all if it’s worse with POW. And as i said allready, a POS design at least allows some restrictions of staking, enough a given project wants to to do so.
Here some arguments against the rich gets richer POS arguments:
“Proof of Work is the rich get richer squared, so if we can get to the rich get richer to the power of one, that’s already a substantial improvement,” he said.
So why do I think the rich get richer less with POS? With mining the super wealthy can invest in research and produce expensive machines (etc) that give them an ever increasing advantage over average Joe. That can’t be done with POS. There are no ASICS. You can’t invest in better staking technology. You can’t price others out of staking . The inbuilt 51% economic safety mechanism still applies to POS, but now the super wealthy can’t price average Joe out of the system and he can work his way up to financial freedom.
There’s also an argument to be made that hardware and electricity costs mean the rich get richer. Proof of work mining enjoys an economy of scale where large mining operations that can pool their resources can grow their influence faster. It becomes marginally less expensive for a big mining warehouse to add one more computer than for a small enterprise to buy and outfit their first few machines. This economy of scale contributes to the centralization of power where the largest mining operations receive the most rewards, allowing them to expand their operations at marginal cost and reap a disproportionate return on investment.
In a proof of stake system, such economies of scale don’t exist. Staking more money proportionately increases your potential of earning a reward, and whether it’s your first dollar staked or your millionth, the increase in earnings potential is the same. In fact, preliminary staking structures from the Casper team indicate the possibility of a regressive rewards structure, where individuals who stake tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in value will see diminishing returns. The goal of such a structure is to disincentivize centralization.
While no system will be perfectly decentralized, proof of stake is far more egalitarian than proof of work in its distribution of rewards. Still, rewards structure and vesting are important topics that the Casper research team will have to determine over the coming years. Expect this process to involve a lot of tweaking in order to balance good incentives with strong security.