Let’s talk about ASIC mining


#5382

I already did. About 100 more. Got a very good deal from a supplier. :money_mouth_face:


#5383

What coins do you mine if its not secret that you wanted more GPUs…at my electricity rate i get 3 cents per 1070 profit which is ridiculous…all my GPUs cant get me daily one single beer in a bar.


#5384

When I stop mining ZEC because of Asic I sold off all of my ZEC I had alot. I built a solar farm to pay my electric. And it doesn’t hurt to have a big brook running thru my property that built a small water powered turbine that also helps pay my electric. As for coins do your research.


#5385

Nice, i had similar plans, even a the water powered turbine but unfortunatly it’s not allowed inside the town to place a water powered turbine. Mind sharing the investment and power output in kw/h you get? Private in case you don’t want to make it public.


#5386

If no one has looked recently, the Z9 (Z9 mini was removed a couple weeks ago) are now no longer listed on Bitmain’s website.


#5387

I’m guessing the announcement of a PoW change plus low prices has removed all incentive to make more.


#5388

Interesting approach by Pascalcoin. GPU+Asic Resistance, i like that. I would even call it “Back to the roots”, lol. .


#5389

I like the idea, but i am curious to how they will prevent botnets ?


#5390

My friend has been trying to buy new Zec ASIC miner for then a month…no one selling them any more…not BItmain not Inosilicon…Inosilicon has listed on the web site but he try they say they dont have it.
That is good for curent ZEC miners but how is that good for coin that market it self as decentralized which everyone can mine and in reality it mined on specialised hardware that you cant even buy.


#5391

First off: bad decision
Second off: bitmain and innosilicon are selling asic for equihash


#5392

No he is actually right, I cant find them on Bitmain website, I know they have been having trouble paying their chipmaker. Also its possible they switched the production to new Bitcoin 7nm ASICS. As for Insillicon they offer them on web site, with Limited Order written on it. I am not sure what happenes when someone actually orders one, how long he has to wait.

So currently all the new ASICS are only made by Insillicon and in limited amount. This situation best suits miners who already received ASICS, and makes mining Zcash and other Equihash coins very centralized.


#5393

The Z9’s may have sold out for this batch. It would be nice if there were a Z9 shortage though.


#5394

Yep, these are the fighters for decentralization you know and love :slight_smile:


#5395

Yes, forgot about them for a moment… I guess they are welcome too there …


#5396

I think this fits in here. An Asic war … Another example how POW is used for (personal) wars …
(Pretty interesting read by the way!)


#5397

wow, some new informations!

zooko will study all of it!

he is very concerned!


#5398

The BCH hash war is helping to debunk the myth that ASIC miners are more “loyal” than GPU miners:

Mercenaries available for rent to the highest bidder…

Customer hashpower redirected by the operator…


#5399

Just some thoughts:

  • The second post is more a miningpool issue from what i read. It’s actually a POW problem where the miningpools have too much power than can be missused like in the case described. Redirecting hashpower, no matter if Asic or GPU, without the knowledge of the Asic/GPU miner is just shaddy business practice and at least in my opinion has nothing to do with asic miner loyality. It’s a pure argument against POW and ZEC should have such possibilities has well in mind while thinking about securing the network. Since i follow ZEC there is too much power on the mining pools, just the name changes, not the situation at all.

  • The first article you is pretty interesting, especially the conclusion:

Bitcoin is about Proof of Work (PoW), not Proof of Rented Hash (PoRH). To decide which chain should be the true Bitcoin BCH, you should pick the longest chain with the most legitimate, sustained Proof of Work invested. It is ridiculous to count transient, rented hash which comes onto BCH artificially for short bursts of time because it is subsidized to do so, but then disappears and does not really sustain Proof of Work on the network. That is like paying a person to show up in a foreign country to vote in a political election, without meeting citizenship requirements to vote.

This fits the whole POW problem pretty good. While with Asics this problem is less than with GPU it’s still a valid concern/problem. In the case of Bitcoin Cash** there is still the option to solve this problem and to switch to another algo, which is even discussed from what i see on other articles about this very special topic.

As soon as i readed and posted tha BCH hashwar article (Some posts above) i realized that POW is even worse than i thought as i so far with all conclusions and predictions didn’t even take into account such scenarios and issues like hashrate war and miningpool redirection. The story wouldn’t be much different if happened to a high hashrate gpu coin like ETH.

To fit it up in short, we witness some problems of POW in real time:

  • Hashpower facilities try to decide where when what how to do. POW fail!
  • Nicehash and other hashpower is for rent and used for whatever practice, be it attacks or enforcing a chain. POW fail!
  • Miningpools take an active stance in a chain battle. POW fail!
  • Miningpools redirect traffic. POW fail!
  • Mining facilities have generated enormous holdings of the cash involved with cheap mining. POW fail!
  • I read somewhere Bitmain is building some 90,000 SHA256 units to join the battle. Means if needed, hardware can be just build at low cost to influence a fork/direction/whatever just with more hardware. POW fail!
  • An as an interesting side fact, every holder of 1 BCH has now 1 BCHABC and 1 BCHVS which made the holders of them even richer. POW fail!
  • Threats of mining empty blocks, block spamming, reversing transactions, whatever not. POW fail!

Have fun supporting a by now total flawed POW mining eco system …


#5400

I hate todays state off crypto… i thing i will just give up off it after 5 years.
ASIC are highly centralised where absolutely most hash and money are with few ASIC producer.
Then there is FPGA
There is one person here in my country that has FPGA and he makes is his own words 200$ a DAY per one FPGA (and he has many) …and they have same TDP as 1080Ti…but its totally closed community…software he has have only very few people in the whole world and they dont accept anyone which is off course normal because it would hurt their earning.
SO one FPGA that normal people CANT HAVE AND RUN makes now like 300 1080Ti or 500 1070s
On other hand besides Monero totally no one in Crypto world care about total centralisation we witness which was biggest crypto promise .
IF i want centralisation…i will just use VIsa.
THen there are masternodes but i bought 10 different masternodes coin and end up like total scam and all money gone…so for me that is also closed story.


#5401

zcash has so little volume on exchanges… since june it was slowly dropping.

thanks for asics, zooko.

when Chinese miners lose electricity zcash loses ~50% difficulty…