Let’s talk about ASIC mining


#5423

imo, more coins sold under pressure = inflation


#5424

Actually this seems not to be really true. After analyzing a lot of charts and graphs i came to the conclusion that ZEC is not pinned too much to BTC. Sure, when BTC goes up all others go up. but it’s NOT in relation!

Proof Relation ZEC/BTC:
Feb 2018, ~0.55
May 2018, ~0.44
Today, ~0.19

I would say it’s clearly visible that ZEC to BTC is not in relation. Much more correct would be calling it: ZEC is following the BTC trend, but not and never in relation.

Edit: ZEC price relation is closest to ETH and XMR by the way.


#5425

Actually inflation is going down …

Proof:


#5426

boxalex you found inflation graph, great.

but do you understand what this graph means? i bet you don’t.

i am saying that with asics bricked off, we will see much less coins flow on the market.

that is it.

classical term “inflation” only may be applied to fiat money.


#5427

I agree with this statement, and have and absolute ton of evidence to back it up. (well 1 database, but it does have a lot of info in it) Whilst true in a broad sense, alts are pegged to bitcoin, it does appear that bitcoin seems to fall faster and recover faster - in a very general sense. have made some money through this kind of arbitrage. I have offered this before, but I have a 150 second intervals (barring a week here or there) since September time last year.

Of all of these pairs and their ratio to each other on shapeshift. (sorry no graphs with strange lines, just numbers.)

our @currency_pair = 	(	"zec_eth","eth_zec",
				"zec_etc","etc_zec",
				"zec_btc","btc_zec",
				"eth_etc","etc_eth",
				"eth_btc","btc_eth",
				"etc_btc","btc_etc",
			);

The reason the inverses are there is because shapeshift has different prices for both. i.e. zec_btc * btc_zec !=1

all stored in unixtime. It is in a mysql database, I can convert to something else if that helps? or possibly knock up a front end and put it n the web, but I kinda ditched a while ago. Although it is a really simple script. I could potentially start grabbing all these data points again.

It does kind of help you move between alts and alts to btc knowing what the last 6 month average, all time high, rolling 7 day average. etc.

To keep this on track, does this help measure inflation? how? oh wait a tick we are in the massive asic thread.


#5428

That’s your and only your definition. Inflation in crypto is just this what i posted. If you have in mind ZEC flow, ZEC sell pressure, ZEC volatility, ZEC whatever, just name it like that.


#5429

that is you who bring tons of names, write long posts.
i like to keep it clean and simple. i like to think inside my head, not on the pages of forum.

we see low price of zec, and difficulty not falling, even slowly growing.

guess the result? more coins @ less price on market.

with GPU mining we will not see this. fact.

But thanks to people like you, who drags in tons of info, tons of links, not really understanding the base, we have lost precious time. Time is critical. Bitmain sold z9 MINI for 1999 usd. Used that money to build more… now they do not sell equihash miners at all… and difficulty rise.

I remember ton of proof, long posts from you my friend, saying that this problem is exaggerated, and in fact Bitmain will very probably make zcash better.

Yes-yes, you did this. And never admitted you are wrong.

However zooko finds your posts very convincing. From his words he admired those for years… nevermind you joined same time that i did…

But this sudden collaboration of yours, on the pro-Bitmain basis, does not surprise me. Zooko openly admitted that he communicated multiple times with bitmain ceo, so i guess zcash recieved an offer he couldn’t refuse.

But this is a betrayal, nevertheless.

And now to protect your asics, you are trying to convince everyone that there is no point in pow, it is all the same. We shouldn’t do anything! We should better discuss POS good points.

Look, all there is to it: you are protecting your money, you are fighting for time. and zooko does the same, for his own reasons.


#5430

About your point 1, pure nonsense, more coins :joy: The coin numbers are the same, no matter if mined with 5 GPU’s or 500.000 Asics. Seems you don’t understand the basics on how ZEC is issued.

About your point 2, that i protect my investment. Total joke, i have 4x Z9 minis and i’am daily converting step by step my POW coin holdings into POS coins as i’am by now, a true believer in more advanced newer consensus designs.

My hardware investment in Z9 minis is below 5.000$, while your GPU hardware is mostly above $50.000, now tell me who has more interest in defending his postion? Actually i even don’t defend asics anymore as everybody can see. Now if you, and only you, think this is a strategy for gathering time, you are totally wrong.

I even will turn off all my mashine in about 2 weeks as POW doesn’t make any sense anymore, easy as that. There is NOTHING to defend anymore, it’s a dead horse allread.

It has been made clear that the additional algo for gpu is coming soonest in ~1 year, asics will stay, obviously, another point that there is no need to defend whatever and i’am not defending Asics for months now. Actually i honestly tried to favour POS vs. Asics, no matter i have Asics. Only few are doing this having in mind the best for a given currency. Ok, you don’t believe it, so it be, mostly you reflect your personal interest onto others, that’s ok and normal, but i can ensure you, you are wrong.

Again, i shift daily step by step ALL POW coin holdings into POS/POA/similar designs and i even admit that i sold 3/4 of my ZEC holdings 5 days ago to XRP, which, obviously was a very good descision. Damn, it makes even no sense to mine ZEC, ZEN, BTCP or ZCL with the Asics as there are some way more profitable equihash coins (not listed on whattomine!).

To fit it up pretty short. I don’t care about Asics or GPU or whatever POW mining, it’s dead, it has no future, it’s bad, it’s flawed, it’s useless, it brings 0 good for the coin itself, it makes only hardware & electricity companies richer, i’am done with POW no matter if Asics or GPU. Tell me which part you didn’t understand and i will try to paint it…


#5431

if you actually think about it, no. more difficulty rises, more coins go to bigger miners. they intend to sell them for BCH war or whatever, and there you go = more coins on the market at lower price.

you said you spend 6000$ monthly on electricity, sorry thought that you have more than 4 z9 minis.

my investment i don’t really care about, it payed for itself.

i care about zcash position on the market. i can see asics drowning it down drastically. besides overall tendency.


#5432

asics are problem number one for zcash.

we need to brick them off right now.

Tell me which part you didn’t understand and i will try to paint it…


#5433

No problem.
I have 4x Z9 minis and by now 93 other Asics, lot of Baikals, X3’s,S9’s and so on. Most are still profitable, but this will change of course, hence my stance on Asics is negative by now as well, no matter i have them. You can’t say it’s white when you see it’s black…

Edit: I’am really shuting down mining in about 2 weeks, seriously. Not that anybody cares about it. With indeed ~6k electricity per month i’am no more comforable to feed hardware and electricity companies.

Only thing i’am personally considering is partnering with some guy in venezuela or some other country where electricity is mega cheap. This would be the only possibility i continue mining for some more time. But than again, i’am located in the EU, not the easiest thing to get ~100 Asics into another country, left alone the trust factor…


#5434

It won’t happen, obviously. With harmony upgrade you get 2 algos and that’s it. My only hope for ZEC was a POS change asap, but obviously this will not happen the next 2 years. I would be even comfortable with a hybrid of GPU POW/POS but that won’t happen either.


#5435

my gpus since may run on ether. monthly profit is small compared to what’s used to be, but i believe in crypto, so holding up.

you can see ethereum diff chart, which reflects situation today. and you can see that there is nothing in common with zec diff chart, which is growing.

by letting in asics, we are forced to play by Chinese rules… but they have mega advantage everywhere, from hardware price, to running cost price…


#5436

Let’s make a normal discussion, without personal attacks, ok? I agree, and i have made another long post, i think in one of the POS threads that POW in generally means geographical centralization which gets bigger with each day past. While it’s more extreme with Asics it’s as well not much different with GPU’s, just less extreme and slower, but the effect is the same.

Hardware producers: As long as special hardware is needed we feed just Bitmain, Innosilicon, other Asics, Nvidia, AMD, dram monopoly producers, chip manufators, all paid in FIAT, that’s actually the biggest problem. None of these brings good to crypto actually. Why feeding FIAT companies if the very same job can be done without them? I’am not arguing that asic producers are worse than gpu producers, but honestly, does it make a difference if one is worse than the other if both are worse? Not really.

Running cost price and including electricity here as well: I absolutly agree to this one. One of the biggest reasons with POW in generally we will get geographical centralization. We see it with Asics again extremely, no doubt here, but whole POW is generated around it. Try to find a german gpu miner? You won’t find any with 0.33$ per kw/h (increasing in 2019 even more!).

I have seen an interesting map of hashrates by country and the geo locations for them (will try to find it again as i forgot to safe it). Right now we have main locations: China, Russia (including here the former republics as well to keep it short), Canada, USA. Than followed by others that still have some “buy power” and lower electricity costs. Slowly but surely others are forced out the mining market like east european countries, iceland and all these with some buy power and mid electricity costs. Allready forced out of mining competitions are countries with very high electricity costs like germany, france, italy and so on.
Interesting part of this map was that countries with lower electricity costs but as well low average income are totally missing. Best example was whole Africa expect South Africa and South America with very low to none mining activity.
It was as well interesting that even Venezuela is low when it comes to mining having in mind it has the lowest electricity price worldwide. The fact comes that the buying power and income of the people there is as well the lowest unable to buy larger amounts of gpu’s/Asics, not even talking about having everybody mining there.
This said, we allready have geographical centralization which gets bigger and bigger daily. As said, no doubt here, it’s just a bit more complex.


#5437

Is there a point to this pissing contest? Nothing we say or do wont influence the decision, we are not members of “Zcash community” as we werent allowed to vote in the decision back in May.


#5438

The part where zcash loses all its userbase because of

  • Dev team that make one decisions then reverse it immediately.
  • Their is no hashrate to support the netwok (btg, cought btg)
  • despite your knowledge in this area you seem to be more concerned with boxalex than the issue at hand.

Boxalex did not cause these problems. He may well have had a hand in helping shape the future of zcash, due to his “overly verbose” comments.

I think this comments that way because English is not his first language, and the more detail he puts in, the less room there is for error or misunderstanding with the reader. Something he and I have got our wires crossed before.

Alex, the two things that strike me as strange are, how quickly you respond to messages, and how you manage to get called every name under the sun from bitmain shill to newbie. Where are all those people who were calling you a bitman shill now?

you and I disagree strongly on a few topics, but flippin heck, at least we can have reasonable discussion.


#5439

I don’t understand bricking them off “right now”. What problem are you trying to solve? Please can you explain to me the advantages and disadvantages of both please.

I don’t own any asic hardware so Im not invested either way except as a holder of zec as a store of value.


#5440

I agree @mistfpga,

when English isn’t your native language you try to explain it longer in the hope important details aren’t missing or missunderstood. Might be annoying for native English speakers, agreed, but as you said, i don’t want to left much room for misunderstandings.

I quickly respond as i “full time” work crypto, i’am about 12-16 hours per day in front of the PC researching coins, designs, trading, investigating, all related to crypto of course. I have several Monitors in front of me and hence i see immediatly interesting things happening on the forum :grinning: Reading/writing on the forum here is some kind of break of the other tasks.

I think having reasonable conversations and discussion is the most important point. One can be wrong in his point, as i was with favouring asics, but i as well can honestly admit it was a mistake with the knowledge and view and things happening these days. Someone can of course nail me on that, no problem at all. Changing mind and views is human and i even would call it evolution. I can’t see any common sense and logic to be a hardcore defender of whatever when times and things change, it just doesn’t make sense.

:joy::rofl: And yes, i think there is no doubt that i got called most names on the whole forum. From noob to bitmain employee. From idiot to nazi minster and from stupid to troll …


#5441

I love how you guy’s personal opinions is the truth and it to you is written in stone. Just think if any of your predictions where true one off you should be rich by now. :money_mouth_face:


#5442

And that is problem with you…you have tons off ASIC mining so many different coins and you come to this thread and was loudest and have most posts…how Zcash should be on ASIC ,how ASIC is so good and how GPY coins are sht.
Not to mention that you accuse us that we are not here for Zcash.

On other hand most GPU miners here before you came like me mined only Zcash…and you threw us out so you can have ASIC coin number 142.
I did not sell my Zcash only until i was totally **** off with ASIC stance and when i saw that we are here not needed any more…and i sold them at 170$.
I could then sell my GPUs and throw money to Bitmain but it would be everything against i wanted Zcash 2 be.

But i thing its late for everything…trust is lost.