Let’s talk about ASIC mining


#5443

ASIC loyalty to the network :joy: https://cointelegraph.com/news/china-crypto-miners-sell-off-mining-devices-by-kilo-amidst-market-decline


#5444

To be fair this is not related to loyality but asics becoming unprofitable, even in china now …


#5445

But its funny as they are selling them by kilo :smiley:


#5446

Yes, that for sure :rofl: Seems i have to weight mine as well soon :persevere:


#5447

More to come, if price keeps declining, most will go out of business , even in China. But overal people keep on mining, hashrates didn’t decline to much. And a decline on Bitcoin could have another option, they were set to Bitcoin Cash. But looking at Eth, sharp price decline, but a little decline in Hashrate and difficulty , so in my opinion people still have hope and now mine for a loss.


#5448

agreed, but how long can the average miner afford this? Soon or late you come to the point where it doesn’t make sense to “sponsor” mining activies just by putting in more and more FIAT for electricity. We are switching from profit mining to sponsor mining, lol…


#5449

I now understand your stance a lot more. I personally agree with it.

As long as he is polite and respectful even if you find his views abhorrent and killing zcash he has a much right to voice them as you have to vice yours. boxalex isn’t the badguy here. (no one is!)

Your post implies that boxalex had something directly to do with ASIC update because he said he thought they were good? even when you had well respected members of the dev team saying “we are not too sure about this”

Has he evolved from bitmain shill to crypto overlord? im starting to think you are both the same person arguing with yourself.

The decision has been made, bring it up what issues you have in the right thread (hint, not this one)

That is because you had hardware that was optimum for mining equihash I mine monero on rx vega’s whats your point? people made the right decision for the situation they were in and this is boxalex’s fault how? You wouldn’t mine cryptonight v8 on a 1060. you wouldn’t mine zec on a 470 and until zec died you wouldn’t mine eth hash on a 1070.

Can we finally please let this thread and the boxalex suggestions (I think he might be john titor) die a death.

thanks


#5450

Boxalex present him self as some Zcash lover but he just wanted another ASIC coin that he can mine.
But far biggest problem was people who are so call devs…for months they keep people blind …“we dont know our stance will we keep ASIC or fork from them” …but they know the answer but keep people blind.
So i did not know what to do…will it fork or not…so i did not sell GPUs or Zcash because we were keep on hold wainting for their answer…and we waited for months and months for their simple answer…if they were clear that they will not fork from ASIC i would sell GPUs for 2 times more money they i could get after that and sell Zcash for 2 times i sold.
I end up in big lost that erase all my life savings because they knew the answer but lie to people how they dont know yet…and prolong it for months.


#5451

https://www.ccn.com/lawsuit-claims-bitmain-mined-bitcoin-using-customer-devices/

Hmmmmmmmm


#5452

China cloud mining farm bankrupt…


#5453

I remember seeing those picture a year ago, w here I don’t know. It was a crypto site.


#5454

wasn’t this a photo of the flooding damage in china?


#5455

I agree, although I have yet to see him state this as a fact.

c’mn man you are making me whiteknight for boxalex here. You cannot attribute that to hime. his stated goals have been all to try to make mining a level playing ground (it almost like people are starting to treat crypto as equality of outcome [yes im glaring at you silicon valley])

First it was variant POW
then progpow
then bybrid PoS
now full blown PoS

read his posts he clarifies as to why he changes his opinions. (something you called him out for!)

Regarding zCash co, they always stated the 28th or before there would be an official announcement.

I really appreciate zcash putting some of their best talent into these open discussion. this does tend to people changing stances or opinions. This is what these forums are for. communication.

I think you are mistaken, that announcement would have tanked the coin. Also you seem very upset that you didn’t make as much as you could have. Well as long as you make 2x, who care about the coin stability or other holders.


#5456

Those pics have been taken out of context. The miners are being scrapped because they are no longer profitable but that is likely because they need to make room for new hardware not because they have gone bankrupt. https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-miners-are-selling-old-asics-for-scrap-metal-as-price-decline-hastens-obsolescence/


#5457

look, your fight with boxalex has very little to do with me except you are involving me by making it a public argument. It is an argument that seems to come from a place of emotion. I can guarantee boxalex had no direct impact on the dev teams decision. I do not want to answer for them, so it is probably best if you raise your points/ask questions their thread.

In my Humble opinion /he/ genuinely thinks PoS is the way to go for zec. This changes as he finds new information. this is not a contradiction but a sign of learning and understanding the problems from a new angle.

I really feel for you. but why take such a big risk. if at one point it was double, why not cash out when it got to 1:1? still that train has gone. Im really sorry to tell you this, but even if zec had forked your savings would have taken a big hit

This really helped me understand the passion in your messages, can you please stop trying to make this boxalex’s fault. It is the fault of the risk management team for zec. (Why are these people not on the official webpage? or are they the advisors)

but boxalex whilst easy to blame because he is a high volume poster, your issue (as you poiny out) is with the development team.

This thread will get their attention a lot more. it was started by Nathan_at_least, incase you missed it.

I hope this helps.


#5458

I shut down my GPU mining rigs, its not profitable to mine anything atm with current profitability, and I would get more coins with straight up buying than paying for electricity used to mine them.

Will wait for some better time to turn them back on.

bearbulls

I can see the situation is not much better with ASICS (chart from https://www.asicminervalue.com/ )

Like @boxalex said this is what happens when all the money going into crypto exits to pockets of hardware manufacturers, and Electricity companies instead of entering and supporting the value of a coin.


#5459

I agree, the picture isn’t much better with Asics no matter there are some that are still profitable, for now at least, but this will change soon.

POW mining, as i mentioned the last weeks drives out the private normal average home miner pretty fast now.

Analyzing it even further i come even to the conclusion that we miners are responsible for it and we literally we cut the bough we are sitting on due greedyness which left us without seeing the brighter bigger picture at time.

Seriously, someone can only wonder why it took us so long to realize that we are on the wrong path with POW and specialized hardware, and i’am not excluding my own here as i should have seen and realized that far sooner my own.

With POW, we, again literally just a handfull of miners, thought we will cause mass adoption, total nonsens if you think about it. The argument everybody can mine sounds good, but is far from reality as not everybody has the skills to setup the stratums, wallets, .bat files, whatever. Indeed it’s just a handfull skilled people that have the knowledge and finances to buy the hardware and make it work. That’s nothing for the masses, but something for the selected.

Than again, we pay in FIAT for hardware and electricity, forcing daily money out of crypto. This alone is
such a contrast for crypto believers that someone again can only wonder why we agreed to this and were comfortable with it, the answer is again, greedyness and they hope to get rich fast, easy as that. No matter in what extent. Nothing else can overrule common sense and logic than greedyness.

With my morning coffee right now doing some interesting examples what we are doing day by day:

Network hashrate of ETC right now, just to take not the biggest coin at first: 10,290,000 MH/s
That’s about 210,000x 1080ti’s
which use about 36,750 kw/h (per hour)
at a price of let’s say 0.1$ on average 3,675$ per hour
makes per day: 88,200$
makes per month: 2,734,200$
makes per year: 32,810,400$ paid in electricity just on ETC with GPU’s
than the price for the 1080ti’s (using here some conservative 750$): 157,500,000$
even not including here all the other hardware like risers, SD’s, RAM, PSU’s!
Now we have: 190,310,400$ driven out only by the ETC network
while their market cap is right now: $472,678,492

Let’s take an Asic coin, LTC:
Network hashrate of LTC right now, just to take not the biggest coin at first: 1,912,400,000 MH/s
That’s about 350,000x Bitmain L3’s
which use about 315,000 kw/h (per hour)
at a price of let’s say 0.1$ on average 31,500$ per hour
makes per day: 756,00$
makes per month: 23,436,000$
makes per year: 281,232,000$ paid in electricity just on LTC with Asics
than the price for the L3-s (using here some conservative 800$): 280,000,000$
even not including here all the other hardware like risers, SD’s, RAM, PSU’s!
Now we have: 561,232,000$ forced out only by the LTC network
while their market cap is right now: $1,670,845,856

Now let’s take the biggest GPU coin, ETH
Network hashrate of ETH right now, just to take not the biggest coin at first: 189,350,000 MH/s
That’s about 3,787,000x 1080ti’s
which use about 175,000 kw/h (per hour)
at a price of let’s say 0.1$ on average 17,500$ per hour
makes per day: 420,000$
makes per month: 13,020,000$
makes per year: 156,240,000$ paid in electricity just on ETH with GPU’s
than the price for the 1080ti’s (using here some conservative 800$): 3,029,600,000$
even not including here all the other hardware like risers, SD’s, RAM, PSU’s!
Now we have: 3,185,840,000$ forced out only by the ETH network
while their market cap is right now: $11,002,675,941

Now if someone wants to make the calculation with BTC, 47,467.97 Ph/s or even BCHABC 1,425.15 Ph/s someone can only imagine what numbers of driven money from crypto comes out as a result…

The above calculations of course aren’t 100% correct as the hardware varies, the prives as well, price for electricity and so on, but the idea behind it is to give an idea how much money we force out of crypto into FIAT, about how much money is paid for electricity and hardware instead of direct coin buys.

Than we have all the scams that as well drove out money from crypto, 100’s of millions of US$. And we really wonder why price is dropping? In my opinion there are 2 elementary formulas:
1.) The longer we POW mine the longer and more money we drive out of crypto space.
2.) The longer there are ICO frauds, exit scams, double spend attacks, similars, the more money we drive out of crypto space.

Easy and simple as that…


#5460

Wow, those numbers are scary, can you calculate for Zcash as well ?


#5461

And that is why going to ASIC was totally stupid …because you force miners who already invest money and had hardware to do it all over again from 0.
GPUs have much longer shell life… Really new generation off GPU come in 4-5 year period …all between are just rebrands or minor clock increase.
On other hand ASIC when come out are extremely expensive and have very short shell life .
And i am not talking about just Zcash …i talk about every other coin …they just made Bitmain rich …ASIC had to be left only on Bitcoin .


#5462

Doesn’t really matter, the important point is that money is forced out daily from crypto space. Having one thing worse than the other one doesn’t make it good either.

As soon as we went away from CPU mining we begun to cut the bough we are sitting on. Seriously, for the whole picture it doesn’t really change anything if it’s asic or gpu. If there are no asics we simply would have even more gpu’s at even higher prices and/or fpga’s. For the whole big picture the only factors that count are these:

  • FIAT for hardware
  • FIAT for electricity
    no matter if it’s gpu, asic, fpga you have these automicly. Period.