The first point is the most important point. Zooko & devs really should think about it.
ASIC will make devs lose the ability to change algo forever.
You know, even Satoshi Nakamoto “relive” today, he can not change bitcoin algo.
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I summarized an alternate idea of keeping asics in check regarding a mining protocol to limit effective hashing to a 50/50
I’m on lunch but I’ll explain more later
Short answer, yes but CONDITIONALLY so kind of
Overall I Am pro zcash network future security I’m struggling to quantify evidence to support Asic resistance is too or at least potentially less harmful then the idea I elaborated on above
I’d really like to go into another new idea but I’m not sure if one was presented and if it was it certainly hasn’t been spearheaded
Something that I don’t think has been emphasised enough in the discussion so far:
The Equihash parameters that Zcash selected for launch {n=200, k=9} were suboptimal.
What do I mean by this? The peak memory required for optimally solving Equihash with parameters {n=200, k=9} was estimated to be much higher than it turned out to require in practice. Just before launch, the open-source mining competition successfully produced miners that required much less memory than previous implementations. However, there was insufficient time to modify the Equihash parameters prior to the launch itself.
(The particular Equihash parameters used also produced relatively large proofs compared with other possible parameters, but that’s besides the point.)
In order to achieve some level of ASIC resistance, I think the choice of Equihash parameters should be revisited, and parameters that require much higher peak memory should be used. It will still be possible to develop an ASIC for adjusted parameters, but it will be far less economical versus GPUs, e.g. if 20× the memory is required.
Furthermore, note that changing the Equihash parameters is relatively straightforward for Zcash, and its mining ecosystem (pools and miners) will be able to adapt relatively quickly.
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Wishful thinking. The only way to guarantee that crypto can survive a police state is to have it decentralized and accessible to anyone with a decent computer (which presumably even the most despotic gov’t wouldn’t try to ban). Consider Venezuela: people will go to jail for importing any kind of ASIC, but not for GPUs.
Also keep in mind that it was illegal for US citizens to own physical gold (excepting jewelry) for decades during and after the Great Depression. They can’t ban digital assets, but they probably can ban ASICs that are used for exactly one purpose.
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Do HF asap or never
ASIC will make devs lose the ability to change algo forever.
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Probably.
Twenty characters!
I have been engaged in prey for a year, and here it is. I thought the Zec team were good guys …
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Sad that @zooko doesnt let us vote in a matter that affect us all the devs and the users.
We are the ones using it and supporting it every day.
Looks like ZCASH is extremely centralized as many said long time ago sad times.
I even ask zooko once to develop a wallet for windows and he said he has no resources to do it. It is sad that I will have to move on if this situations continue.
Really really sad and disappointing how they are handling this hole situation.
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People have invested heavily in GPU mining equipment and mining individuals CANNOT compete with Bitmain. Bitmain mines it until it is almost unprofitable and then they release the ASICS products to the market to recover their manufacturing costs. The GPU miners are destroying their future profitability by supporting complete mining control in China via ASICS manufacturers. It just requires simple coding to keep ASICS out. Simple coding. Simple simple coding.
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Because he’s licking his chops and eagerly wanting to have a big farm just like them.
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Right, Baikal and Halong I am sure.
Even if something is ASIC resistant the race is on. Nvidia and AMD will be releasing mega crunching cards for super expensive that will render plain graphics cards useless.
They are produced in China, will be a two company monopoly and totally unaffordable to the normal person.
I do not want my 1080 ti rigs to be obsolete either, but it is going to happen.
At least there are more ASIC producing vendors now. Competing to build faster and more efficient equipment.
I like the idea of keeping mining in the hands of the many, but even with gpu mining, if there is money to be made, someone will make it bigger to make more.
I appreciate this thread because I know it has helped me look at all sides of this topic and the roller coaster it has been.
What is most interesting is to see the demands, and the you better, you promised postings prior and after on keeping Zcash ASIC resistant. Do you truly believe that anyone acting in such a way is going to be heard? For those of you that have children, if your child came to you with the same you better demands, you promised attacking conversation, how would you react? Contribute by sharing and giving facts, not the attacks
Before today ASIC for Equihash algorithm (believed to already exist) was speculation. Now it is not! Other than there is now proof that they exist, nothing has truly changed. If Zcash doesn’t fork, move your GPU’s to something else.
Without hurting anyones feelings, The $$$ amount invested in your mining equipment in the end means nothing to the Zcash idea, the owner, or to anyone but yourself. No matter if you have 1 GPU, or a 2000 H/s rig, or a 100k investment. No one but yourself made you spend the $$$. It was a speculative investment! Stop treating it and Zooko or anyone else like it was anything but one. Zcash IS NOT your only option, there are other coins on the Equihash algorithm or ETHash you just have to spend 5 minutes pointing it to it.
It’s another 2 months before they are shipped out,So everyone has 60 days to make a decision.
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a lot of people would probably not be happy to see sappling delayed for a PoW change.
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Changing POW is much more than just benefiting GPU miners. Since day one of Zcash, ASIC resistance has been always a promise and one of the reason that many of us signed up for. Let’s be reminded that Equihash was specifically chosen by the team because they believe it is best to resist ASIC!! We can’t just write off original mission like that.
Letting ASIC running is like admitting that we’ve failed while pretending that everything is fine.
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Blockquote Without hurting anyones feelings, The $$$ amount invested in your mining equipment in the end means nothing to the Zcash idea, the owner, or to anyone but yourself. No matter if you have 1 GPU, or a 2000 H/s rig, or a 100k investment. No one but yourself made you spend the $$$. It was a speculative investment! Stop treating it and Zooko or anyone else like it was anything but one. Zcash IS NOT your only option, there are other coins on the Equihash algorithm or ETHash you just have to spend 5 minutes pointing it to it.
Any other Equihash or Ethash coin is already being mined by ASIC’s - why would you point your rigs to another coin using these algorithms? The Bitmain miners will work with ANY equihash or ethash coin. You need to switch to coin that is non asic (see above post of these coins )
It’s another 2 months before they are shipped out,So everyone has 60 days to make a decision.
?? what? Do you not know that Bitmain has been mining with these for months now, and it is going to get even worse. It’s 60 days until the public gets THIS batch , tricking everyone to think they are going to make $1000 a month with it (Based on todays calcs) - but the hashrate will mysteriously double in June when their second batch is setup in their mining farms which are 2x ,more efficient than batch one, and now you will barely make $200-$500 a month, and by the time you pay off the damn Z9 shit, it is worthless.
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Equihash is not asic-resist (as originally expected). There is no wallet for windows yet. If Zcash devs are not able to develop a quality ASIC-resist algo, this debate makes no sense.
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No worries, I have been operating Monero pool for few years since 2014, I spoke with them and personally educated a lot of people from Venezuela and other poor Latin America countries how to mine Monero. Now when Monero GPU mining is great again they simply can switch (if they ever worried about ZCash at all). It literally makes me puke how you are pushing your commercial cryptocurrency with 20% block taxation this way. Consider airdropping food from this insane profits instead, at least it will not look so curst.
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Thats if the secondhand asic you got in the mail even lasts that long or works at all
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Well since you’ve seemed to missed the posting, BTG has already announced they will fork the day that Z9 mini is released. It is likely that other coins will follow, on either algorithm, so you can point there. There are other algorithms you can point to, but for this conversation I was referring to these two only.
So taking that logic, go buy 13 1080 TI gpu’s, and everything you need to make them run and mine. Just a rough $$ you are like at $14,500.00. At current pricing that is a 16 month ROI
Yes there is a wallet for windows, there has been one for over a year!. Stop spreading wrong information
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