Here comes new ASICS if this isnt fake https://asicminer.co/shop/asicminer-equihash
That SCREAMS scam! and look an additional 7% scam plus fake power consumption by them (fake) hosting it
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All the numbers I have seen based on other coins shows you would make more money just buying the coins vs buying ASICs. With the current market, and how Bitmain already has the next better Z9 mining. You will be lucky to make your money back before difficulty spikes.
Current difficulty rates and time to reach based on other coins hit with ASICs.
5x Prepare for $6 a day in weeks after ASICs are released.
10x Prepare for $3 a day in a month after ASICs are released.
20x Prepare for $1 a day in 2 months after ASICs are released.
But its sad that people will jump on new tech that will possibly make them a quick buck, even tho its going to push out 90% of the other people in the market that support the project and give it value. How is this helping again?
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No, i do not know everything about Asics, but i know the things i need to know about the asics i have.
You are a total confused guy. You write in the wild, full of accusations in every post you made.
I said from beginning i mine as well with GPU but switched mostly to ASICs when the gpu cards price raised. Your personal attacks don’t make any sense dude.
Seriously, you are one of the 2 guys in this whole topic that aggresivly spread ONLY lies, personal attacks and do NOT contribute with any real information. Even worse, in your childish anger you mess up everything that someone can says, mix it like a mixer and than even believe what you write. Amazing. But i’am not going to waste anymore time with you. Your argumentation is below bot level. This is no offending, take it even as a compliment!
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Lets see here, To think the difficulty will stay the same is almost impossible, so lets just ASSUME some numbers, yes we are estimating…
Based on current difficulty.
at 1x = $37 a day | 56 days to payoff
at 2x = $19.07 a day | 110 days to payoff
at 5x = $7.42 a day | 282 days to payoff
at 10x = $3.39 a day | 619 days to payoff
at 20x = $1.34 a day | 1562 days to payoff
So just in the last week the Z9 mini has been annouced, Its profit went from $40 a day to $37 a day because of difficulty increasing. Imagine what it will make in 1 month when ASICs start hitting users hands.
Its not hard to see what the other coins did when ASICs came out, and to say ignore what they did because Zcash will be different is called denial.
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@boxalex @dzonikg personal accusations against each other are not helping to further the ASICs discussion.
Please stick to facts or theories about ASICs and refrain from personal attacks.
Remember, debate the ideas don’t attack the people
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I never said that i believe that difficutly with not go up, no way! So do not lay that in my mouth.
ALL i said we do not know how much it will go up, it might be 1.5 times it might be in worst case 100x, it’s speculation. And until you can show me a formula based on real digits on how many Asics with how much hashrate in an exact time frame and how many gpu’s are when leaving and how many asics right now are on the network and how many asics bitmain will hold we do not know it, but we speculate.
Nothing else did i say. i said we guess and speculate here. We do not know, that’s it. I agree though that everybody that believe that the profit will stay the same like one day 1 is a fool, aboslutly correct. but we do not know either how much it will spike later.
We could make eventually make some good-guess calculation if we knew how many asics will mine Zcash only without having mining other coins on equihash. We do not know that.
However, of course, everybody is free to make his own guesses, the only thing that bothers me is that you make from a guess a fact. All other i agree with you.
Correct.
Here we go:
Proposal for Zcash:
After being one of the (new) and maybe view members that followed this thread from the very beginning until now having readed every made comment i would like to share my final conclusions on the whole issue. It might be worth reading even my English isn’t the best and it won’t be something 100% pro Asic for sure, but i’am trying to get the best out for Zcash and it’s miners.
Most important, Sapling, Winterover
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Most important should be indeed the developement of sapling and winterover. A coin is only that good as it’s developement, tech, inventions are, only Bitcoin has the bonus as the first coin to be different. No other coin has this advantage right now. This said, i agree with zooko and many others that this should have absolute priority.
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I’am not a developer and in many cases it might be easy to call for something, to await something when someone else has to do the work for that. I believe that in sapling and overwinter a lot of other things are involved that would make it hard to fork away right now immediatly without paying a high price for it. Makes actually perfect sense too. This is a point where only Devs or real experts should discuss as the average joe like me has indeed no real idea what exactly is involved in such programming process/time/work hours/finances/timelines/you_call_it.
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This said and the developements in production will for sure for Zcash’s good, i’am pretty sure there is no doubt about it.
Miner Loyality for network :
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Even if many do not admit, no matter if GPU, CPU or Asic miner, most of us are in just for profit. This is an open secret that isn’t a secret at all. A given team should not really rely on it’s miners, neither on Asics, even less on GPU, because when a given coin gets more profitable and the news spread someone is quick to switch the rigs, asics, whatever. While of course allways some loyal miners will stay, no doubt of that as well.
The advantage of an Asic here is that at very least it has to stay on a given Algo, while the GPU can switch to one of the other ~70 Algos that are around right now. The chance that the Asic will abonan the coin on the network is x times smaller, no doubt about that either. -
To counter that mining hoping, no matter if Asic or GPU, i personally like the idea of some kind of bonuses for loyal miners and/or rewards getting/confirming over a longer period. Everybody that is for the long run on a given coin shouldn’t have a problem with it. Even there is always the argument of votality of course. However, it could be some nice feature and invention of loyal miners get rewarded at a later point just for that, staying loyal to the project.
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Different Algos, i put it into Network loyality. I like the Verge system of using several algos, some for Asic, some for GPU. There are other coins too with multi-algos but this one comes first into my mind as i’am mining it as well. Due the lack of programming skills at Dev level i have no idea how difficult it is to have a coin with inventions coming on different algos. If this needs developement on each algo or just minor changes. Someone with more dev skills can explain it better if it’s a possibiliy or not. I like the idea because i take it as backbone for the project, even some kind of security not to rely on only 1 algo.
Verge is damn fast when it comes to transactions, i’am not sure if this has something to do with the multi-algo, but mostly other reasons play a role as well.
However, multi algo should be something that zcash should consider. On one hand for the community that indeed mines with GPU’s and would be forced out, this will just be the case, no doubt long term about that either.
And while some miners here might deserve it, the majority for sure doesn’t and i personally would not
feel good forcing someone out either. I would be ok with it if GPU is absolutly useless at this time, but it’s not. It has its purpose and only future will show where it will go. But for now, they have their place on many coins, are a part that indeed helped to growth many coins and maintain a lot of networks and projects.
On the other hand you have Asics, with their own strong sides and cons that as well can help to improve things, be temporary the future until FPGAs come. Again only future will show when, why, how.
Mutlialgo would fit both, the conservative and the more or less “industrial” future of mining with Asics.
This would give as well Zcash more room to play and taking eventually less risks, at least in my opinion. I could be wrong on this, but that’s how i see it. Most important it wouldn’t force out the current zcash miners that indeed believe in the project. I again will mention verge here as it’s mind on some algos with even ancient gpu’s and they are still doing ok while on the pure asics algos of verge like scrypt and myriad-groestl the asics do perfect as well. I see it as some win-win-win situation (gpuminer-asicminer-project).
However, as said earlier, i’am not a dev and i have no idea how difficult something is to implent at whatever point of the zcash progress, but maybe it’s worth considering. It would be the most fair approach in my opinion.
DEV Fee:
- This is a must in my opinion. I was not aware of it, but as a highly tech oriented trader, miner. holder it makes perfect sense. Nothing worse for a holder, investor than abondaned projects or 0 interest of the dec team to develope a given project further. I’am all for that Dev Fee, best hardcoded forever! Only this fact i learned on this topic will make me buy additionally ZEC and hold it as it’s the garantee for me as an investor that it has the best chances to get way further as it stands now.
So everybody attacking that dev fee should think twice about it IF you want to have a project having sucess.
Other Coins mentioned/compared so far:
I highly suggest not to compare that easy other coins with Zcash. I’am saying this without agenda. You can not compare Zcash to Bitcoin, to Monero, to SIA, to BitcoinGold, Dash, to whatever. Every coin has it’s own strategy, it’s own risk when taking decisions, own future plans, own developement (or lack of such!), own value, own visions, own community, own network, own expections, own everything.
The thing that counts most is developement of a given project, i’am a hardcore believer in this. A shitcoin will go down and a good coin will always raise with good innovative developement and tech, no matter if Asic, multi, gpu, cpu, android, POS, whatever. The least thing i would do in every real life decision i have to make is following blindly someone as some have suggest here.
2 Chains:
- in case multi algo is not an option for whatever reason, 2 chains might be an interesting project, but a risky one. Maybe, and just as a vision, it could be used for 1 chain supporting the higher nominal value and one with a lower nominal value. Some kind of a 100$ note and a 1$ note.
I think one of the bigget drawbacks of Bitcoin is it’s high value, at least when it comes to everyday usage. At least i do not comfortable when making my math and calculations with 0,0000*.
However, i could imagine that at some time even crypto currencies get split into different nominal values to make every day usage more easier. Sounds strange, is strange, but might be an interesting aspect just in case we have 2 chains anyway.
Just my final 2 cents on the whole issues as each arguments now get randomly repeated now, many wrong, many right, some lies, some true, some with pure profit in mind, some with passion and believe in zcash, many wild guesses, only view real calculations and so on …
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It’s got such a nice handle for picking it up though 
But it’s “easier” (read more money if coin goes up) to buy ZEC coins than to mine them using only GPU’s.
61080ti ~ $6000 in Europe (I am quite optimistic)
2 PSU + other components ~$600 (again very much optimistic)
$6600 / $275 (price ZEC now) ~ 24 ZEC
With this setup you mine approx 1.8 ZEC/month, so at 0 electricity cost, it still take 4 months just to get the hardware costs back.
Including uncertain events, isn’t it simpler to just spend $6600 on binance now? Maybe even wait for a DIP.
If coin will double in 1 year time you just lost this doubling.
If you ask me as an investment, GPU mining only works when the project goes from $1 to $100 and you were one of the first miners in the space.
With ASIC’s (at lest with stable technology like S9) you can have quite a clear ROI even if you throw the hardware away.
I am not looking into making a quick buck, I am looking into making quick ZEC (regardless if the USD price will go down), plus the opportunity to make ZEC after the first ~2-3 months at quite lower power costs (which are in USD)
If your just looking to get quick ZEC, why not just buy ZEC instead of the ASICs. You will end up with more ZEC at a cheaper price if you buy them vs trying to mine the same amount with ASICs.
I could be wrong, but based on other coins hit with ASICs you will be lucky if the difficulty only goes up 5x in the next few months, at ONLY 5x the current difficulty it will take you 1 year with 3 ASICs to make 32 coins, about 2.5 coins a month.
But good luck, let us know how it goes, I am curious how the ASICs will play out for the future of Zcash. Time will tell.
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https://asicminer.co/shop/asicminer-equihash
Competition is coming. Looks like ASICS maybe here to stay
Here is the problem, is this competition or just a seller trying to make money before ASICs hit the market and sky rocket the difficulty. How can this price compete with Bitmain.
Z9 is almost 2x as good, and this is the mini version. Would you buy a 1070 if there was a 1080 TI for the same price?
ASICminer will not be relased till mid July, 1 month after Bitmains ASICs, you will never make your money back at that point.
ASICminer Equihash - 40k Sols at 1200W, $15,150
Bitmain Z9 mini - 10k Sols at 300W, $2,100
With $15k you get.
7x Z9 minis = 70k sols , 1400W at $15,000 - Released in mid June
ASICminer = 40k sols , 1200W at $15,000 - Released in mid July
Edit: Its also concerning another company has had a Equihash ASIC ready to market a week after the first one was announced. ASICs are not something you just make in a short amount of time. How long and how many have been made already?
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God. Can’t win. You guys complain about everything.
Well…ASICS would be ok if there was competition
And then…competition arrives.
Still… whine whine complain complain
Just go mine something else and stop crying like I will do when the ASICS hit the market.
So much fail in this room
Bitmain will design, r&d and build a asic. Mine with it for three months.
After this time they sell the information to other manufacturers. They will continue to test/mine for 3 more months. Then. Sales go to the public.
Other manufacturers will then replicate their own version
Notice how Bitmain was the first to release. And ALWAYS are.
These other companies wouldn’t do the same if Bitmain didn’t.
If you guys were in the know or anywhere connected in the chip world you would know all this.
Do you people really think the hash rate for zcash right now is all gpu. Cause if you do, your mistaken. For about the last 6 months also.
In this case buying ASICS just puts up to beat with the Bitmain and other ASICS already running on the network
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Why support a company that overprices hardware, undercuts the coin market buy selling off coins and runs out all the GPU miners that built this community, so you can make a buck?
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While i agree that i did not await as soon another Asics on equihash and was a bit shocked when i saw 40k Sols, than looking at the price it isn’t that big deal mostly.
However, i checked the data of both, the bitmain and this one, it seems this one fits better at homemining with only 47db and watercooling.
The good thing of this offer now is:
- There is an alternative to Bitmain and competition everybody was crying for. You do not have to feed Bitmain how. One of the main concerns is gone.
- You have a miner that fits home mining. No more valid argument about aircraft noise, heat, whatever.
- This miner has no restrictions to where it can be shipped, so no more Taiwan, Macao, Hong Kong argument either i hope.
Just as a side note: The Z9 was still available for purchase while many mentioned it’s not. At least for me acessing from Europe. It as well seems there is a canadian reseller for them. Maybe the reason candadians couldn’t see the miner for sale. Maybe some exclusive contract no idea, just thought i will mention it.
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I can’t think about a buiness strategy of an enterprise or corporation not following these principles…
Well. Half the hash rate on zcash is ASICS. That’s a fair estimate right now.
It don’t matter who to support. If we want to keep profitable, we are going to need them.
And at this point, you go asic resistant. Lose half of your Has rate. Honestly. Could be more.
Then what.
That’s what you guys don’t understand here. ASICS been here for 6 months.
Take em away and watch what happens.
SERIOUSLY
Watch as the hashrate drops 50% or more like Monero? And how is this a bad thing for the GPU miners that have been here since the beginning of the project? This helps everyone but ASICs.
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