Let's try the Kialo deliberation tool

Kialo is a kind of mindmap tool for debates, it’s meant to help a decentralized community like ours keep track of their technical discussions.

I tried to start on importing the discussion about UDAs from this other thread and also one about deprecating t-addresses.

It’s pretty easy to try out, the above link works even without an account, and if you do make an account you can make suggestions there (I think I can delegate moderation privs on it, not sure yet). If you want edit access just ask. We almost tried this out a while ago but didn’t quite get off the ground. If it works maybe we can get some use out of it or I dunno make a better version on top of zecpages board.


Kialo was important in the ProgPoW algorithm change debates in Ethereum land. Here is an example of that in Kialo: Ethereum and Programmatic Proof-of-Work (ProgPow) | Kialo


Impressive! How does curation/editing work, to maintain a high quality of the entries (relevance, clarity, non-duplication, brevity) with many contributions?

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It’s easier to get your perspective over there vs committing code or changing rules in protocol. We can have mods tweaking it from ideas on the forum.

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There are admins who moderate the arguments (I’m one of them for the ProgPoW one). I wasn’t very active at the time and tried to moderate loosely to stay neutral on that platform, but it’s a good idea to have at least one person from each side of the discussion on there moderating.

Thanks! I’m down to experiment with this.

I’m pretty new to Kialo. Can we use it to map out potential goals to help the community rally around which goals we can aim for together?

I don’t think it’s worth debating which design alternatives we “should” adopt without clarity on goals.

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For the ProgPow debate, how well specified was “ProgPow” and how much did the specification shift during the use of Kialo?

I noticed that ProgPow link has this statement in the box:

Ethereum should adopt Programmatic Proof-of-Work (ProgPow).

That sounds like a boolean “should” style deliberation.

For UDAs on Zcash, what I’d like to see is a yes/no deliberation on a large set of potential goals where Kialo users can brainstorm new potential goals. Does Kialo help with that, or is it best for “yes/no” on a specific proposal?

After we had that, then we could compare different proposals and how they stack up against goals. And for that step does Kialo help?


ProgPoW was well specified in that it was defined in an EIP that didn’t change much, so the debate in Kialo was mainly over whether or not to do it which itself came down to “is there a large enough threat of ASICs on the network/are ASICs bad and we should/should not deter them from mining by switching our PoW”.

I haven’t used Kialo thoroughly enough to know for sure if it allows for what you seem to be describing as brainstorming potential new goals and creating branches from that with alternatives. It’s more for yes/no in my opinion.

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