I don’t know if the app download rate shows dramatic increase in usage and surely no one is hiding in full node UX wonderland. You’d be amazed when people use something how places won’t delist. I know there are regulatory hurtles here but most of these are all t-addr variants anyway. Think things are moving along as usual but it’s no secret the xmr community is much larger.
I see many great points discussed here.
Individually we can do a fair bit, but it’s as a group that we have the most impact.
Personally, as a stakeholder, I proudly stand behind Shielded Labs. I may disagree sometimes but I feel like they have our back, and I want to have theirs.
As an anon, I don’t feel there’s any kind of representation of anons (stakeholders) in here. So I’m looking forward to meeting like-minded individuals and eventually organize stuff together.
Now, different people have different visions for Zcash, and that’s a good thing. But if we want to have it our way, it’s going to have to go through legitimate methods, such as voting.
So I’d like to ask you folks, what did you vote for on the last poll?
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Absolutely no secret. The question is: what are the reasons for this?
Do you want to discuss voting in all the forum threads? Okay. Personally, I didn’t vote.
Romanticizing privacy does not make “usable” private money. The privacy narrative doesn’t sell well because it doesn’t quite resonate with all people yet. Lots of great research here but no usable products. Here people now do the unstoppable private money thing but xmr likely leaned into usable private money (yes I know it’s not near the tech here). Again the average user doesn’t care about what curve you are on and what layer of phd math you landed on in zk world. Also think the turnstyle ux and decisions didn’t do well for keeping a large user base. XMR gets delisted and uses it as empowerment and a call to be more decentralized. Here we rant about it knowing engineers spent almost a year or so on an address type that was basically a t-addr for what?
Note: turnstyle doesn’t mean the t-addr to z-addr movement folks are used to here; I meant wallet swapping, node deprecating, wallet migration. None of it feels very sticky. Just seems like beta testing with real money but understand it needs to happen somewhere
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Governance permeates almost every decision.
Wanna elaborate why then? I am glad you see some things to complain about, I agree with some! What about let’s make things better and vote for what we want?
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Everything is exactly right, except for the part that it’s not “needs to happen”—it continues, and there seems to be no end to the super ideas, without any understanding that you can’t sit on two chairs at once. If you’re building a truly private coin, no t-addresses will help you stay on centralized exchanges, and no stablecoins will launch on your blockchain. And by trying to be in both worlds, you end up not being needed anywhere.
For now, I haven’t figured out what’s better from what’s being offered. I’ll review the terms and vote
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Zooming out it’s doing as one would expect…can’t really be on bleeding edge research with turbine level end products, but too much end user thrashing just makes them find other architectures.
That’s what I could find:
It’s pretty similar to the model used in Zcash today it seems? Only they do it without financial compensation, apparently.
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It is invite-only and decides about the code merges and community grants? Interesting. Is there like an official list of people/usernames? What do you think of its governance in regards to decentralization or lack of it?
That’s one way to address Sybil attacks, I guess.
I see Monero as brothers from a different wallet 
No, seriously. So I’m happy to discuss about and with them, and applaud their successes. I’m team ZEC/YEC at the end of the day though.
The way I see it, their governance is bad, our governance is bad.
But thanks to @hanh we can vote with our tokens, and thanks to the work of Shielded Labs, this is about to substantially improve our governance.
I don’t want to derail this thread around our governance too much, so feel free to join the party over there, I’ll happily answer any questions you have on the matter:
I do not think we are derailing at all since the name of the thread is literally “Monero. Everywhere”. We are just comparing and learning 
Thanks for your Input!
Edit: here is an interesting article about an incident where funds were drained from the Monero CCS wallet. chain analysis is real.
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This snobby attitude is another thing that some in the Zcash community need to stop doing. Not only is it stupid for perception (it gives off the vibe that you can prevent “criminals” from using your tech which gives the impression that it isn’t neutral/permissionless) it’s also dumb tactically.
Those “criminals” are the ones that are going to put your privacy tech to the test like they have done with any new technology throughout history and like they are currently doing on darknet markets. They have the strongest adversaries after them (governments and other criminals). So if it works for them (the worst case scenarios) that demonstrates it will work for the average person.
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Am I the only one amused by the fact that the Monero community criticizes Zcash´s “corporate governance” all the time while their CSS wallet was handled by only 2 people without multi-sig, one of them being fluffypony himself? Over 2k Monero got drained resulting in theft of >400k USD as of today´s prices. I know, Schadenfreude is bad, but I cannot help myself. It is funny to me 
I am not sure to see the relation between the CSS wallet flaw that resulted in loss of funds and our governance, but I think we can do better than mocking people.
Mocking ourselves can be constructive and is fair, imho.
I think disgruntled Zcash users should band together and be part of the change they want to see in the project. That’s why I am so insistent on having a credible governance. Once we have that, and we are getting close, nobody is at an unfair advantage anymore.
Governance permeates almost every decision.
I am not sure to see the relation between the CSS wallet flaw that resulted in loss of funds and our governance
What is hard to understand here? IMO you are contradicting yourself. A good governance with clearly defined processes would have prevented such a “mistake”. Was it even a mistake or was it theft? What is your definition of “wallet flaw”? Like I said, a community-funded wallet managed by 2 people without multi-sig is not what I expect from a project that should focus on decentralization. Maybe some ZCG members could chime in to teach us what risk management measures they have in place with the ZCG treasury and how it is done the correct way.
Also I am not mocking people, I am just pointing out flaws in the governance of other privacy projects. I would interpret it more as friendly banter. I also stand by my previous statement. It is funny af considering fluffyponys (and others) X posts about Zcash governance.
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The funny thing is that as soon as the price of ZEC overlaps the XMR price, and it will, all the talk in this thread will subside.
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Maybe you are right! I was just saying that it’s worth considering that this specific issue may not be a governance one at the core. It’s fair I think, I’m not attacking your point.
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I have never cared too much for the price (that is, short term movements). If ZEC overpasses XMR and I still can only pay with XMR, you’ll still see me in this thread.
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That will be fixed soon.
I think that many people live as if in the moment. Right now they are comparing prices, without trying to analyze what’s underneath. I don’t consider Monero’s performance to be outstanding. With such a good distribution in a CPU-mining environment, with all this variety of acceptance points, with tail issuance - $200 is a modest place.
I’m grateful to all reasonable communities, and the early bitcoin community, and the early monero community and many others, for pioneering and giving us insight into the false and correct routes.
Strength lies not in memes or the current situation. It is much more important to have a long term vision and understanding of the challenges ahead.
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