So What’cha Want? ECC Update (funding edition)

[HHIROSHIMA]

@joshs

Not to mention that the ECC engineers don’t often get the credit they deserve: bringing zk to life for the first time, making it performant for the first time, eliminating trusted setup… solving problems that everyone has been trying to solve and now everyone else is using. The hard core and experts in the space know, but I need to do a better job communicating what we contribute to those that don’t.

I don’t see it that way. The only thing that counts is the result and if we look at the last 8 years, near nobody would get any more money from me if I were responsible.

[nuttycom]

@HHIROSHIMA

I also wish there were proof of work and evidence of every day of the supposedly best of the best developers who supposedly put so much effort and have been working on zcash for 8 years.

You do know that every bit of work we do is open-source, right? You can just go and look at our GitHub profiles, for every developer in the Zcash ecosystem, if you want to see a fine-grained breakdown.

[HHIROSHIMA]

Thanks for the hint but I like to take the shortcut. Zashi after 8 years and virtually no use for zcash.

[pacu]

I’m not following your pun, would expand a bit? thank you.

[HHIROSHIMA]

Just carry on as before.
Insight and change are obviously not wanted or desired at ZF.

[nuttycom]

@HHIROSHIMA

Thanks for the hint but I like to take the shortcut. Zashi after 8 years and virtually no use for zcash.

You say you want something, I tell you how to find the information you want, you then say no, you want something else. I don’t think you have any intention to ever stop moving the goalposts or offer one concrete, well-reasoned, actionable suggestion. You just want to make useless noise.

[HHIROSHIMA]

Please excuse me, but it’s unbelievable how much strange statements I have to read here from the so-called best developers there are in the crypto space. As if I look at the whole work of the last 8 years. The result is enough for me. Thanks.

I would finance them all for a maximum of one more year from the reserves and then turn off the money tap, especially the ZF. It’s terrible how manipulative ppl are at zcash. I think this project needs new developers and a lot of them.

[pacu]

@HHIROSHIMA

I think this project needs new developers and a lot of them.

Yes, and they are all welcome. They can just apply to grants or look for other funding stream on their own and work in Zcash or as many people have stated in other threads “work for free” given they align ideologically with the project’s mission.

You made clear that you didn’t like how ECC and ZF conducted themselves the past years. I understand your frustration and I acknowledge that it is shared by many active forum users. These two organizations don’t receive any more funds as of November of 2024. What the OP of the thread is proposing is a mechanism for the community and coin holders to say or to funding requests from them. I think that, if you are right, when the moment comes and those orgs request funds, they’ll face the results you would expect. I don’t follow your unsatisfaction with what’s being discussed here since, from what I understand, the outcomes you would desire should materialize with this proposal (for the case the arguments you present here end up happening in the future).

[HHIROSHIMA]

@pacu

I don’t follow your unsatisfaction with what’s being discussed here since, from what I understand, the outcomes you would desire should materialize with this proposal (for the case the arguments you present here end up happening in the future).

. To be honest, I didn’t want to go that far, but I keep coming back to this topic.

@joshs I know that Josh is trying to get the whole thing moving in the right direction, albeit a little slower because it doesn’t seem to be possible otherwise - but if it were up to me, I’d take out a hammer and smash everything to bits and then implement the whole thing immediately.

[cryptomuncher]

Fork the chain start with a clean slate and Zashi and then see if it picks up adoption. There’s clearly a disconnect that no one seems to be able to figure out - building all the latest and greatest privacy doesn’t mean much if no one wants to use it.

[pacu]

@HHIROSHIMA

but if it were up to me, I’d take out a hammer and smash everything to bits and then implement the whole thing immediately.

That’s an expression of desire, not something materially possible to complete wholly. You can smash everything in a matter of seconds but you can’t build something complex in a short time that replaces what you demolished.

[artkor]

You can check it out on GitHub, right?

Chain Broker 🇺🇦

And for the purpose of understanding, the link only takes into account ElectricCoinCo’s GitHub activity.

Not taking into account repo of Zcash Foundation, Qedit, Zingo Labs, Shielded Labs and many other teams working on Zcash

[HHIROSHIMA]

@pacu

That’s an expression of desire, not something materially possible to complete wholly. You can smash everything in a matter of seconds but you can’t build something complex in a short time that replaces what you demolished

When I write about getting the hammer out, I don’t mean a fork or smashing zcash, but above all replacing and expanding the workforce.

[Keystone]

Keystone 3 Pro is fully open-source and designed for high-security self-custody. With air-gapped signing and a transparent codebase, users have complete control over their assets without relying on any centralized servers. This ensures that your ZEC holdings remain secure and accessible at all times. Since Keystone operates entirely offline, external restrictions or server dependencies won’t impact your ability to manage your funds. You can confidently store and transact ZEC with full sovereignty and verifiability.

[SexDrugsAndZcash]

kudos for being active on our forum

[noamchom]

@joshs

As you can see, our funding will run out this year. We were at two years of funding just a month ago, but the recent price drop reduced our runway by over a year. If the market remains as it is, ECC remains as it is, and we don’t receive funding, we’ll be out of money before the end of this year.

When the funding chart was created, do you recall the ZEC market value?

[Lixin]

My 2 cents here -

1. 2/2 multisig is not a good choice. If I were you, I will add a brand new Android phone with GrapheneOS. Reference - 10x Bitcoin Security Guide | Pick Quorum
2. I think a absolute value of $3 million dollars is not a good benchmark here. I would say that if I put 10%+ of my net worth in crypto, I would use multisig.
3. For Keystone we want to build it into an ultimate signer to be compatible with as many wallets as possible, to help avoid situations like “my IP is blocked”.

[outgoing.doze]

I entirely agree with you @Lixin and it’s refreshing to see someone understand the importance of GrapheneOS, instead of a closed source OS (iOS).

I truly love and am very thankful for what you’ve done with the Keystone. I am using it myself for low amounts and am looking forward to using it with a larger number of tokens, in a few years.

Imho, one point critical to mention is that it’s… new. And when it comes to security, there’s one important test to pass; the one of time.

For that reason, I personally wouldn’t recommend Keystone for large amounts at this point. And given Keystone is the only option in town for cold storage using shielded polls, I would actually strongly suggest that we do not ask people using the reliable Trezor wallet, to change anything, even if that means not using shielded pools for now. Those people may actually know what they are doing and have a good reason for using that wallet at this point in time.