The Last Swing of The Stick

General
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We’ve beaten the same dead horse for too many years now.

We are now seeing old dredged up posts critical of poor Zcash team decision making, drifting objectives, confusing narratives, soft-insider dealing, other conflicts of interest, powers-that-be power dynamics, countless complaints about ZEC value, ongoing critique of slow productivity by huge ZCG grant winners, concerns about product and protocol feature deliveries, never ending wallet and node problems, PR snafus both at Zcon4 and elsewhere, hardforkers are re-integrating into the forum

Yes, it feels like this project and this community is coming apart at the seams. Particularly now that we’re suffering from a temporary mempool clog attack, only weeks after the SPAM attack was mitigated.

It feels like the only thing this community does best is spend the Free ZEC from the block reward, because it sure as hell isn’t growing adoption, providing investor value, or building wallets and nodes that work reliably and quickly.

Can those of you (myself included, I won’t point any other fingers) who continue to rehypothecate the same critiques across the floating glob of >20 other threads from this year, attempt to air all of the rest of them here?

We should treat this thread as

  1. group therapy
  2. a padded room
  3. the complaints box at the restaurant
  4. trench warzone
  5. crow soup cafe
  6. Zcash addicts anonymous
  7. an echo chamber

I’d love to see, and I’m sure many other forum users will agree, other threads not all being derailed into the same back and forth banter about wallets, block rewards, ZEC price, or marketing.

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Since we’re free to complain in this thread… :slight_smile:

There is no such thing, it’s working as intended by ZIP-317. But wallets need to update their fees per ZIP-317. And even if they do, the mempool will still be full while the spam attack endures, but that’s expected and shouldn’t get in the way of non-spam transactions (spam txs will be evicted to give room for non-spam txs)

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Wallets that monitor unconfirmed incoming funds are heavily impacted that the mempool flood.
There is unfortunately a negative effect for these users.

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@hanh Good point, but this shouldn’t prevent users from using the wallet. Maybe we could reduce the mempool size, or change the eviction policy, or change lightwalletd to allow getting txs with correct fees… But arguably wallets should be able to handle full mempools and detect unconfirmed transactions in a best effort basis

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@str4d reminded me that the mempool size is configurable by nodes, so if it’s reduced in the node that backs the lightwalletd server, it should help all wallets that use it. @NighthawkApps is this something you would be willing to try on your servers?

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I don’t have a complaint. Just an intrigue

I’m really intrigued about this belief that removing the dev fund is the silver bullet that will kill all the problems we have and make go to the moon.

I need to know all the reasoning behind it.

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The wallet is usable. But, the increase amount of data to process has an impact on bandwidth and performance.

The filter on heavy txs was rejected by the lightwalletd repo owners.

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How about we combine Monero’s disregard for authority & compliance with zcash tech… :skull:

  • dismantle any legal attack surface

  • no more t-addresses

  • resilient PoS

  • 1 of n honest block producer requirements (look at ETH roadmap)

  • Fee Market (!!!)

  • zUSD(t) as utility Trojan Horse

:slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::slightly_smiling_face::skull:

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I like the idea of zUSD, having access to a stablecoin on layer 1 network like Zcash would be awesome.

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All good! Compliance seems like it should be done at the wallet level. so zec agnostic to compliance makes sense. so let’s form a zec holders group and push hard for this.

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Absolutely Agree With All

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@Boggerster @Blazin8888
Would love to make zUSD, zEUR, zSGD etc. happen, but from what I’ve gathered its just not something thats even close to being possible or even prioritised currently. Even with the upcoming additions of ZSA, we are quite far from having the needed feature set for a centralized or decentralized stablecoin. I do have one idea on how it maybe could be done via ZSA Atomic Swaps, but even then it would probably just be like trying to fit a round peg into a square whole.

What needs to happen is thought shift on the upper level, a clear and vocal voice saying stablecoins on Zcash are important, and then asking the communtiy for suggestions on how this might be built.

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I’m proposing something else. Filtering low-fees txs in the mempool, not in already mined blocks. This avoids the false-positive risk since tracking mempool txs is always a best-effort procedure and it doesn’t matter that much if you miss txs, unlike filtering txs in mined blocks.

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We just need to tell Paolo to mint some USDT directly onto zcash, make them redeemable over the Bitfinex desk for an absurd fee, et voila. Perfect market fit for everyone.
Add a fee market + PoS and $ZEC has direct and sustainable value accrual.

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One of the big benefits of a captive stablecoin under the Z umbrella is the collateral income. If you have $100,000,000,000 held in short term treasuries. Then its equates to $5 billion in interest income per year! That helps to subsidize the gas and can be redistributed to ZEC holders and future development and maintenance. It’s all about managing the float…Now you probably have to hold 10%-20% as reserves. But you get the point. Im pretty sure Tether is not reallocating the interest income on the collateral to anyone are they? Are the Stablecoin Wars coming and who will be ready?

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they aren’t, but we can’t have everything.
True RWAs with Chainlink proof-of-reserves are still theory on Ethereum; any working solution is using a proxy LLC that pinky-promises the existence the tokenized assets. Add leadership scepticism when it comes to programmability at the L1 and you got 10 to 20 years until there’ll be a truly endogenous RWA/ZEC-backed stablecoin. Without even going into details of how liquidations should work without smart contracts, liquid AMMs, liquidator liveness guarantees,… it’s just not something that is realistically possible with zcash’s current trajectory.

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Whoever is leading here is the coin I want to own.

How do you explain Paypal? They just launched on Ethereum? As you point out it might take 10-20 years to to id right. So the answer isn’t we cant do it. Its we need to do it in phases. Phase 1 might be what you suggest and just use Tether. Phase 2 might be copy tether/Paypal. And then evolve it over time to what you might consider a more pure decentralized stablecoin. Ultimately, ZEC needs to control the float and keep people in its echosystem and on its blockchain.

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As one of the leading proponents to eliminate the block reward completely, I’ll share that I don’t, and I don’t think any of the rest of us, think there is any silver bullet to kill Zcash problems.

My support for eliminating the block reward is around a dozen or so points:

  1. removes the moral and productive hazard created by free money
  2. best aligns material interests of ZEC holders and ZEC builders/ maintainers
  3. creates a powerful meme moment for Zcash
  4. significantly decreases project regulatory risk
  5. decreases conflict of interest dynamics among the powers that be
  6. should accelerate the debate into and creation of a Zcash transaction fee market
  7. removing the block reward rapidly decentralizes Zcash further
  8. removing the block reward does not = eliminating ZF, ECC, or ZCG
  9. alleviates ZEC liquidation pressure
  10. incentivizes effective and efficient upgrade to PoS
  11. places faith in Zcash SAFE for future project funding
  12. removes the honey-pot slander talking point
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Which hazard?

How?

How?

How does a fee market solves the problem the dev fund is designed to solve?

From where would they get funds?

Why? It’s very likely that miners sell all the ZEC they mine. How would that change?

PoS is a super complex thing to implement. Who is going to do that without the dev fund?

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they are doing it on purpose, that’s the only explanation i can find for all those bad decisions, hacks and delays :joy:
NSA/CIA conspiracy