Zcash Community Grants Meeting Minutes: October 2, 2023

Below please find the latest ZCG meeting minutes and Public Dashboard link.


  • Amber
  • Brian
  • GGuy
  • Jason
  • Michael
  • Jack (ZF resource)
  • Daniel (ZF resource)
  • Deidra M (notetaker)

Key Takeaways:

  • Open Grant Proposals
    • Bird Calls - This grant proposal was removed from being on “hold” and ultimately rejected.
  • Brainstorm Session Follow-Ups
    • Zingo! - The committee discussed whether or not to shift monies & milestones around for the Zingo team.
    • Ecosystem Security Lead - ZCG is in talks with two other organizations that can take on Taylor’s role, as this is his last month.
    • Beth - Her trial period has ended and now needs to be renegotiated.
    • Ledger - The committee discussed what their options are and how to proceed.
  • Other
    • Treasury management (Dodger) - Jack asked ZCG for their input on how to manage the likely surplus of US dollars in the treasury.

Open Grant Proposals

  • Bird Calls - Formally posted the second phase of the project, the integration phase, asking for $245,600. They think it will take a significant amount of work to integrate BTCpay into Birdcalls. At the 05/29 meeting, the committee voted to put Birdcalls on “hold.”.
    • After approving this grant’s first/research phase and placing the second/action phase on hold, the committee discussed this proposal again during their brainstorm session and decided to remove Bird Calls from being on “hold.”
    • During the meeting, ZCG voted to reject this proposal due to the current treasury. ZCG will encourage this applicant to reapply at a later date in their messaging to that team.

Brainstorm Session Follow-Ups

  • Zingo!

    • Zancas messaged the committee about getting access to the funds early from 2 of their uncompleted milestones to pay his 10-person team because they needed to pivot in response to mitigating sandblasts and improving code to improve sync time. GGuy asked him for more information, and he responded with more details.
    • Amber said that she empathized with having something take longer than expected within engineering development and then it takes all your effort just to stand still. Amber also added that this ask is not unlike Nighthawk’s retroactive grant request. Lastly, she stated that when ZCG decides to fund apps like Zingo and Nighthawk, expecting an app to be a “one and done” kind of grant may not be realistic.
    • Jason asked for clarification on which of Nighthawk’s requests she was referring to and added that he felt Zancas asking for early milestone funds was different from a retroactive grant. She agreed and said she could see reasons to vote both ways.
    • Brian agreed with Amber that this request is challenging but voted to approve shifting the money in support of their pivoting to mitigate the sandblast and completion of other described work in lieu of completing the finsight milestone, which was initially agreed upon if this ask is within the wallet cap of $350,000 set by ZCG. Brian also said he is still trying to determine what this means for the other milestones.
    • Michael said that Zingo is one of the top wallets in the Zcash community; however, he also feels that ZCG should set a standard that grantees deliver results that they have committed to.
    • GGuy said he encouraged pivoting, and by his understanding, this ask is not giving more money but changing priorities, and he voted to approve.
    • Jason agreed with Brian’s reasoning and added that if getting Zancas the funds earlier than expected makes him and his team more productive in getting things done, then ZCG should approve this. Jason also agreed with Michael that ZCG should not be lax with milestones, but said it’s different in this situation because it falls within the annual budget allocated to wallet grants. He voted to approve this ask.
    • In a 3-1-1 vote, the committee approved this request. GGuy will reach out to Zancas privately with this decision and have him adjust that milestone to document what his team has already accomplished. Dan will open this grant for editing so that Zancas can change Milestone 2 and ask for the payout. Once approved, Zancas must edit Milestone 3 to include items from Milestone 2.
    • Brian added that Zancas stated his openness to include FROST in the wallet but wants to caution him because FROST may not be ready yet, and to focus on his current milestones instead. GGuy will include this in his correspondence with Zancas.
    • Jack said ZF will hold a community call later this week to introduce FROST to the wallet community. He also added that the FROST-for-Zcash ZIP has yet to be finalized.
  • Ecosystem Security Lead

    • Taylor is leaving this month and will have an exit meeting with the committee later.
    • Brian posted an RFP for this position because the committee finds this a high priority. ZCG has already met with Least Authority, and it went very well. Liz, from Least Authority, responded on the forum and said she is interested and will send a proposal this week.
    • The committee also has a call scheduled for Friday with Thesis Defense.
  • Beth

    • Beth is the ZCG Outreach Coordinator and has finished her 3-month trial period on September 30. Currently, her contract has yet to be extended. ZCG scheduled a call with her on Wednesday to discuss her role, which is different from what was initially expected but does align with her past responsibilities, including her relationships with mining pools.
    • Overall, the committee is happy with her work in the past three months. Assessing whether she has added value to ZCG is hard to say given the nature of outreach work and relationship building; it may take months to see the impact it has. She has been developing new relationships with new companies, which is great.
  • Ledger

    • Jason posted on the forum a statement from ZCG that summarizes where things stand with Ledger so that the community is up to date.
    • Brian said that he understood and agreed with Jason’s post. He also said that he was unsure about the idea of reaching out to other organizations and said he saw that Zooko responded to that thread but is not sure if any organizations can take over Hanh’s work, specifically. Brian said moving forward with Zondax would be the most efficient way for Ledger to be satisfied with this proposal. Lastly, he said he was disappointed that it did not work out with Hanh, as the ZF community trusted and supported Hanh’s past work and wished Ledger’s blockchain-based organization requirement was clearer upfront.
    • Jason said he would like to have a follow-up call with Ledger, Jack, and the committee soon to inform Ledger that ZCG will not be moving forward with Hahn, and to let them know what ZCG’s plans are. He also said that the committee should meet with Zondax to understand whether they are willing to use some of Hanh’s code, which has been audited by Taylor. Jason also said that, apart from engaging with Zondax, the committee should actively reach out to companies like Equilibrium and Chainsafe to see if they’re able to take over this project and support it long-term. All options should be explored so we can deliver this app to the community in a timely manner.
    • Jack reminded the committee that Zondax has a functioning Ledger app that supports transparent and Sapling transactions, and circled back to why Zondax had proposed productionizing their fork of the Zecwallet Lite wallet, which was because there needed to be a compatible wallet for Ledger to test the new app being submitted but attempts to partner with both Zecwallet and Ywallet had been unsuccessful.
    • Jason asked if Nighthawk could be used as a wallet, and Jack replied that it could not be an option because NH is a mobile wallet but we need a desktop wallet for Ledger to test with.
    • Jack emphasized that the most significant win from a Leger integration would be support for shielded ZEC in Ledger Live, and for the committee to be very aware of all the requirements and the integration’s limitations, such as the risk that it may not be possible to add support for Orchard into Ledger Live due to licensing conflicts.
    • Jason said that he has a proposal inspired by a conversation he had with Dan:
      • Because ZF has a history of working with Zondax and funding previous Ledger work, would ZF be willing to serve as a “project manager” for this project and manage the relationship since they are better suited than ZCG, and then split the cost 50/50 with ZCG? One reason is that ZCG has already funded Hanh’s work, but Ledger may not utilize his code.
        • Jack replied that ZF has already worked with and funded all of Zondax’s work to date, which resulted in a Ledger app that could not be submitted because it had no wallet integration.
        • Jason gave several reasons why ZCG chose to go with Hanh instead of Zondax; however, no one anticipated Ledger wouldn’t accept Hanh’s app submission.
        • Brian agreed with Jason and added that whatever needed to be done to move this project forward, he favors it because the community wants and needs hardware wallet support.
    • Jack suggested that ZCG’s best next step is to meet with Zondax and discuss the situation with them. He also recommended that expectations and the scope of the project be crystal clear, as there has been a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding to date. Once those expectations are made, Jack suggested discussing the proposed plan with Ledger and ensuring they agree.
    • GGuy proposed that ZCG send a follow-up email to Ledger with a status update and await Ledger’s response before scheduling a call with them. The committee agreed.
    • Jason asked Jack to contact Zondax to set up a meeting with ZCG and ZF. Jack said he would start an email thread to figure out a time that works for all.
    • Jack reemphasized the benefits of Ledger Live integration and the importance of backward compatibility to ensure that people who currently hold ZEC on a Ledger device don’t lose their funds. He also reminded the committee that Ledger will require an audit by one of their two approved audit partners before they will accept an app submission.
    • Due to Hanh’s recent post, Dan reminded everyone to ensure Hanh knows his part in this project is officially over. Jason said there is no harm in Hanh trying to find other entities to sponsor him, but that it also does not stop the committee from moving forward with the takeaways from tonight’s meeting. All available options should be explored.


  • Treasury management (Dodger)
    • Jack informed the committee that the ZCG treasury is likely to have a surplus of US dollars soon due to upcoming milestone payouts. He asked ZCG whether they would prefer that ZF keep the USD or close out the hedge by buying back ZEC?
    • ZCG expressed a preference to close out the hedge by buying back ZEC, and requested that ZF keep enough USD to hedge out the cost of the Global Ambassador Program for the rest of the year.

Geopolitical Events

Jack informed the committee that the ZCG treasury is likely to have a surplus of US dollars soon due to upcoming milestone payouts. He asked ZCG whether they would prefer that ZF keep the USD or close out the hedge by buying back ZEC?

ZCG - treasury should consider the effects of international events affecting the flow of capital away from instability and risk.
The effects of a broader more prolonged conflict in the middle east has a real risk of driving energy prices higher.
The difficulty of China based Country Garden & Evergrande property giants defaults.
Difficulty in understanding Russian actions creates a lot of risk in an around the euro markets.

I support zec. I support the preservation of resources in the face of large geopolitical instability. There is a real possibility zec value decreases in the near.

I support holding treasury resources in the near term in USD / EUR / YEN.
I suggest considering selling additional zec into the above assets in the near term.

isn’t zec supposed to be the safe haven asset?

now, i’m not saying this is fhe wrong thing to do. it has been proven to be the right trade. but i do have a major problem with advertising and promoting ZEC as a currency for day to day transactions when you all know it’s not stable enough to be a currency in this manner.
moreover. 65% or more of people live paycheck to paycheck. To tell them to buy and use zec seems like the wrong message because when zec falls, it really hurts these customers. we probably even permanently lose them as future customers. imagine someone knowing little to nothing about money being told to buy a currency and it drops by 50%. would you ever buy it again? so in my opinion we are targeting the wrong customer. You guys know it. you sell zec for fiat because it’s too risky to use zec to buy services. bitcoin targets holders. something like 75% of bitcoin owners are holders. they know their product and their customers.

by believing zec is a currency for day to day transactions causes a massive misallocation of resources. too little focus on the important blockchain improvements and privacy assets like stable coins and too much spent on advertising the wrong message and on local community, government relations, education and third party wallets.

what are you doing to make zec a currency you can trust? obviously privacy is not enough. based on your actions, we need a privacy based USD tokenized treasury bond. that’s the future! plus it’s something even you would buy! when you don’t eat your own cooking, it’s a red flag.

1 Like

Is there a reason why nothing was discussed regarding Zcash Media 2023 - Milestone 1, and their ongoing radio-silence?

Its a $1,000,000 grant… and they’ve already slipped the schedule on Milestone 1 once.

@GGuy I see that you attended, and are the most active here in the forum. Who functions as the ZCG Grants meetings leader/ scrum-master?

To feel like ZCG Grants are being diligently managed, it is intuitive that any grant with a huge ticket price (lets suppose $500,000 or more) should be progress tracked/ status discussed each meeting. Even if only for a few minutes.

ZCG has been in recent contact with Zcash Media, who will provide an update on the status of their project via the forum soon.