Zcash Protocol Hangout, Dev Fund Edition #2


Thanks for the great moderation, @sonya!

For those on the fence on whether to watch, here’s an incentive: you’ll get to see people’s reaction, and @amiller’s special T-shirt, when the trademark agreement is revealed to have just been signed in real time.

So now, let’s keep the discussion going within the forum, especially on the new question raised. Here are some topics/comments that I posted, in that spirit:

and @mistfpga posted on:

I’d love to also see a discussion of the metrics question that @ttmariemia raised, and what are good uses for metrics in light of @Dodger’s reservations.


The hangout was really good,

I was really impressed by the ECC representation there. - I was not expecting that. I cant @ all of you so I will just @elenita and @joshs - Thanks. It made a huge difference.

A lot more stuff and nuance was covered than just the protocol proposals and their was some really interesting questions and responses. Because of this I am about halfway through generating timestamps.

it is taking a bit longer than I expected. (@tromer, I cant understand you at 1.75 speed, sorry. and @ttmariemia you speak really fast!)

Done, trying to get decent subtitles up. going to let that process over night and then add the timestamps here.


Creating a new post. for the timestamps.

This is a list of timestamps for the proposals. Please let me know if I have made any mistakes. Thanks.

The conversation was structured, however when a proposal was discussed, the zip champion would give a brief introduction.

Where applicable when a person from the ECC, ZFND or community introduces themselves I will @ their forum username.

All statements made by the ECC unless specifically stated otherwise reflect their personal opinions and attempts to help the community consolidate and refine their ideas, they are not official stances.

I have highlighted questions and answers that are sort of outside the scope of the main conversation. I have not detailed the questions and answers for the proposals. So, where you see a timestamp for a proposal (marked in bold) the time covers introduction of the proposal and discussion of it after.

I have not individually marked out specific questions. I did detail each question and response, but it is too many links. Hopefully, this is a more readable way of doing it.

I have made an exception the first time someone speaks, and introduces themselves. - so there are more links at the start. This is marked with Italics. (I have also added their ECC/ZFND connection if their is one)

There were digressions and talk of other things. I have tried to pick these out as best I can.

00:00 - @sonya Sonya, introduces herself. Frames the discussion, sets the rules and says how the proposals will be discussed.
02:04 - [ZFND] Sonya sets out order of proposals and time constraints. Matt Lungho is banned from speaking for 10 minutes by Sonya.
03:06 - Chat asks about the trademark. Josh Cincinnati @acityinohio responds to the comment for the foundation.
05:42 - David Campbell responds on the trademark for the ECC.
06:24 - Sonya answers a question from chat about the timeline
06:42 - Steve @mistfpga asks a question about veto and 2-2 (I am sorry for my really bad mic and helicopter sounds.)
07:12 - [ZFND] Josh C responds for the ZFND
07:50 - [ECC] Josh Swihart @joshs responds for the ECC
08:38 - Sonya brings back focus to ZIP’s

09:20 - [ZFND] Josh C introduces himself and goes over the details of his proposal.

Discussion moves to a new proposal.

13:30 - Matt Luongo @mhluongo introduces himself and goes over his proposal and answers questions
18:16 - [ECC] Nathan Wilcox @nathan-at-least introduces himself and asks a question.
19:50 - Hameed introduces himself and asks a question
22:11 - [ZFND] Eran Tromer @tromer introduces himself and expresses reservations
31:29 - Matt addresses reservations for the sake of time he asks to continue the discussion on the forums

Discussion moves to a new proposal.

32:52 - Chris Burnske from PlaceHolder introduces himself and goes over their proposal and answers questions
37:03 - [ECC] Linda Naeun Lee @lindanaeunlee introduces herself and comments on the proposal.
45:35 - Sonya introduces @amiller - Andrew doesn’t specify his PhD (its aliens, but he isnt allowed to tell people. shhhhh.)

48:12 - @avichal Proposal.
49:55 Antoinette introduces herself and responds.
56:00 Nathan has to leave, and gives and off the cuff opinion on voting (not representing the ECC)
56:47 Jacob introduces himself and expands on his amendments to the proposal

01:05:31 Antoinette @ttmariemia Proposal and answers questions
01:14:24 [ECC] Benjamin Winston @zebambam introduces himself and raises potential security concerns.

01:16:10 @aristarchus proposal. Sonya gives summary, and starts discussion of the proposal

01:21:01 Dimitrius’ @rex4539 proposal. Sonya gives summary, and starts discussion of the proposal
01:23:03 Rasikh Introduces himself and gives comments on the proposal.

01:24:06 Blocktown’s @blocktown proposal Sonya gives summary, and starts discussion of the proposal

01:28:26 @lex-node Proposal Sonya gives summary, and starts discussion of the proposal

01:30:33 @kek Proposal (Delayed choice/kick the can) Sonya gives summary, and starts discussion of the proposal

01:32:22 Steve’s @mistfpga Proposal (Keep the initial distribution as already defined.) Steve fumbles about a bit then introduces the proposal (note the github version is not the version on the screen.)
01:34:10 [ECC] Jack Grigg @str4d introduces himself and asks a question.

quick interlude for an important announcement
01:37:56 Josh Swihart announces the trademark deal is done! - Really good work by both the ECC and ZFND.
back to the zip

01:44:33 Josh Cincinnati’s @acityinohio proposal (NOTE: this is a personal proposal and not one on behalf of the ZFND)
01:47:10 Josh S makes a statement regarding communication with a mining hardware manufacturer and the ECC.

the hangout now goes slightly off topic but some very good stuff is discussed. especially to do with metrics.
01:48:03 Antoinette starts the metrics discussion.

This is now mainly about shielded adoption as a metric and is worth listening to. Includes two introductions from new ECC voices in the conversation.

I havent timestamped every comment, but they are in the right order.

  • Amiller responds.
  • Matt responds.
  • Eran responds.
  • Josh C responds.
  • 01:56:15 [ECC] Jack Gavigan @dodger introduces himself and responds.
  • Steve comments.
  • 02:02:14 [ECC] Elena @elenita introduces herself and responds.
  • Sonya responds to Elena and expands on proposal judgement and discussion briefly diverges.
  • Antoinette back on metrics.
  • Eran responds.
  • Josh C responds.
  • Sonya responds.
  • Steve forgets.

02:12:28 Sonya brings us back to ZIP’s
02:13:03 Steve’s @mistfpga proposal (Genuine opt-in)

02:21:02 Rebecca Mercers’ proposal
02:21:27 [ECC] Daira Hopwood @daira joins and introduces hirself.
02:24:11 Eran solves climate change using zec! (official science position)

02:24:45 @kek proposal (No more halving’s after 2020 3% yearly)

02:29:18 5 minute break. (really Sonya leaves for a bit and anarchy ensues)

  • Daira speaks on ill defined zips.
  • Amiller declares chaos.
  • Anarchy!
  • Steve suggests a way forward. (sorry for the bad audio) and problems with the suggested voting process.

02:35:12 Sonya returns to restore order.

Discussion still continues, about process and burn.
This is really worth listening to.

Really good input from the community, ECC and ZFND. (matt, plz no burn!)

DONT SAY BURN! -heh. seriously though this needs to be reworded before the ECC can discuss it i think was the gist.

02:48:58 amillers Trademark T-shirt. - does this make up for the oversized bitcoin button behind him, and the tiny zcash sticker next to it? I don’t know. you will have to decide for yourselves.

I had to do most of this by hand. someone at the foundation please get liveworks, it will do all this with button presses. and subtitles too, im having real trouble with syncing the subtitles and youtube is not letting me correct their automistakes.