Zcash Protocol Hangout, Dev Fund Edition


7 and a half hours??? :crazy_face::open_mouth:

about 3 hours, This video should be edited.

Could you speak Chinese? Many miners want to talk about the Dev Fund, but they can not speak English.


I’am not sure, but i think there was yesterday an AMA in chinese.

I know that. but It was too short .

As the video lacks the first introductions, do you mind adding who the following persons are or a short introduction of them:


Thx in advance

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Thanks for hosting this talk.

After listening back to this I can see why there was confusion over my second proposal. I was working off my local version and the GitHub version. Which are different to the forum version, buy quite a bit. I could not update my initial posts on the forum because of a limitation with the discourse software.

I should have briefly summarised the zip, there are two parts to it. One states that all block distribution based funding must be true opt-out. As stated, the burn or recycle proposal was not written up fully at that point. IF there is to be a mandatory donation this must come from the transaction fees. This is what I meant when I said it is the only one that allows continual funding for the lifetime of the coin, in a mandatory donation sense.

I articulated this very badly, or not really at all. Hence all the confusion. Sorry about that. I imagine people were reading the forum version and getting quite perplexed.

It was late and I was tired. That is my only excuse.

and yeah the talking ends at 3:05:59

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Yeah, sorry, I ran into multiple issues editing the file. YouTube wouldn’t let me trim it because it’s too long. I’m not kidding:


So I tried using QuickTime, but QuickTime doesn’t have good enough tooling to snip at a precise point (or maybe I just couldn’t figure it out).

Enlisted @acityinohio to use a CLI tool, and then YouTube wouldn’t accept that file, even though it seemed to still be a normal .mp4

Eventually I just threw up my hands and uploaded the super-long video, because I didn’t want to sit on it.

If any of you have good video-editing software + skills, I can send you the file and the timestamp for when it should be snipped!


They all joined later so I don’t think they introduced themselves, actually.

Unfortunately we don’t have anyone on staff who speaks Mandarin. I’m happy to do my best to read feedback and answer questions via Google Translate, although I’m not sure how effective it would be.

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Will we have another hangout to follow-up from this one?


I cant believe I am offering to do this,

But if there is a short call, say of about an hour for a couple of proposals, then up to 20 mins of extra time at the end, I will do English subtitles. If I manually add them (well if you do) then you will get automatic translations based off the English subtitles into whatever language. (if you had liveworks you could do this pretty easily because you are hosting the call. you would need to double check for google getting it wrong, but 90% of the work would be automatic for you)

I will do this for all of the proposal calls if needed. I suspect some will be shorter than others. I personally prefer the idea of 3 calls of about 80minutes to one call of 240 mins.

This will hopefully help people in non English speaking countries follow along.


Yes, Antoinette, I’m going to host another call! I’ve been hesitant about scheduling it because of the trademark uncertainty — ideally, the next conversation would be after trademark resolution, but we don’t have a firm date for when that’ll be. Josh suggested early November, so that’s what I’m going to do.


Could we maybe do a rerun of the proposals ourselves? that at least would give me some motivation to finish mine of in some reasonable time frame.

The amount of effort you put in to community management is amazing. (same for all the foundation people)

This next bit I need to get off my chest: - This is directly aimed at the ECC as a company and its user interaction policies.

@ecc (yes I know that is a valid @, try typing it yourself) - I am using the ecc because I am talking abut the company. you really need to sort something out. you have removed yourself one step further from the community and are not engaging at all.

Sure you (upper management) don’t care about the forums. but you still advertise them as a primary means of communication. Either stop doing that or get someone who is willing to do the work (like sonya and josh c do for the foundation)

Every single update we have had recently about wtf is going on has come from the foundation. Why is the ECC not responding? Why are the top people not responding when you have Josh C responding? is he not as equal?

Yes, I am pissed. No, soothing words wont make it go away. action will. I have put a lot of time and had my personal life schedule messed up quite a lot by the shifting deadline goalposts - Thanks for that. My decision I know. But I decided to try to make zcash better, I opted in - so did you

We have been blessed with this extra time and all that is happening is the community is left sitting on their hands waiting. Why cant we use this time constructively?

what is the delay for? What happens in November? Another silent patch? Halo working? Time to work out venture capital funding? yet to sign contracts for a pivot? (yeah, this is the lack of faith I have in the ECC due to their behaviour and engagement on this topic with the community, I am now open to the idea of the ECC stalling on purpose).

EDIT: upon reflection about this issue, and a small update from the ECC by @joshs I have edited the above information. I apologise for the harsh nature of this wording. I am leaving it up to show the mistake and that it is a mistake. I still disagree with the ECC and their interaction policies, but should not have just focused on this one specific example.

The community has already put a number of conflicting and symbiotic proposals together, yet they have been judged as individual proposals.

So we are still left with nothing. just the clock running down.

Then in November what? when is the deadline then? Realistically, you yourselves have missed the deadline for any inclusion for funding in the next update. So why should we extend the selection process for the ECC?

EDIT: again updated. sorry for the inflammatory language, and reading into things about the delays in the proposals. You still need someone who can keep on top of this very low volume forum. (which was more what the point was meant to be about)

Why are you not making time for this?

Why cant the ECC organise a call with the foundation and the foundation puts the communities points to the ECC? just the ECC and foundation in the call, if you wont talk to us please talk to them.

I know, I am just a nobody on a forum shouting at the sky. but I am not the only person who feels like this. No one else wants to been seen as that frothing lunatic though. I really don’t care.


Hi. We have all been working very hard on a number of fronts.

The Zcash Foundation made the decision to delay community engagement on proposals due to the disagreement on the trademark. We have no control over that.

We have been working on a compromise and there is movement almost every day. I have another set of legal language based on ECC and Zfnd attorney’s meetings, from Monday, sitting in my inbox as of tonight. Both sides are working through a lot of legal language.

I’ve been in meetings all day, is 9pm but still on my plate for tonight. It’s not simple but we are pushing hard. Zooko is personally engaged and working very hard on every aspect of this for the benefit of the community. Sometimes that takes the place of engaging directly on the forum.

Feel free to message me directly and I’ll be straight and honest. Due to my current load, I am just not able to read through all the messages on the forum everyday. But if you message me directly, I’ll get a notification and respond. Thanks to @sonya for raising this concern with me.


Thanks for the update @joshs. It’s great to get some updates from the trademark-issue operating room!

When things are figured out and time allows, or if community input can help guide the negotiation, I hope to hear more about the points of difficulty.


Hi @Joshs,

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I would like to start off my apologising for the tone of my last message. It was a very standoffish and accusatory. I also included things that were speculation but I allowed myself to frame them as if they were fact. I didnt intend on doing that but that is how it reads back to me now. I assume that is how you read it at the time too.

I really do hate having to involve you, for the reasons you have outlined below.

I think I focused a bit to much on the proposals side of things and didnt proper articulate my concerns. I was very cross though and I think that clouded my point. I will try to cover it one last time here. I will be answering each point of you message so hopefully you can see and empathise with my position.

Please make the ECC make the forum one of them - the ECC advertises as a preferred method of communication. forum.z.cash even redirects here.

This is new information to me. And yes you have no control over that. - I would like to not derail this into a trademark thing. This is a time and focus thing. You do have control over how the time is used between now and when finally a trademark agreement is met so why not use it to help the community along?

The forum feels so neglected in certain areas that I know there is no point posting questions. There are so many foundation answered or acknowledged questions out there that are just waiting for the ECC.

This is why I feel bad. I know you really busy, you are a VP. You are not going to be up to speed on everything on the forums. You are very willing to engage, but you have a really busy schedule. Can the ECC please employ someone that has the same role as sonya does for the foundation? This would go very far to repairing broken bridges and dousing out the ones that are currently on fire.

That is a really kind and open offer. I just dont like doing it because it isnt really your job. I have said this before but I really appreciate you being in that livestream and prepared to answer questions. it helped a lot.

This is a great example. Why did sonya have to raise this issue? This is why I suggested that the foundation has a call with the ECC to put the communities points forward, not just on protocol stuff, not just forum stuff, but other social media too.

Please dont go to hard on this people, but this has been nearly 2 weeks. 2 weeks I have been sitting on my hands not knowing if I should change things or not. (yes it is to do with proposals, but it just needs a very simple answer.)

I am guessing not, which is why I asked if the ECC would talk to the ZFND so we can get things addressed that way. (I have posted this question in at least 4 threads.) - Please note that a proposal by KEK has be attributed to me, this and the confusion in the call about my proposals lead me to ask the question in the first place)

(the joke at the start for the ESL speakers is that in British English 2 weeks is a fortnight - the title is in International English, the first bit in British English then the next bit in US English - bi-weekly means twice a week in British English where as it can be twice a week or twice a month in US English - its just a stupid quirk of the different types.)

After the forum got handed over to the foundation it really feels like the ECC used that to put them one step further from the community.

I am no longer pissed, just sad.

I am genuinely sorry for taking up this much of your time.


Thank you. I appreciate your candor and sincerity. I take the feedback to heart.

I agree with the issues you’ve outlined, recognize how we got here, and am taking very specific steps to not only improve on community engagement but add some fresh engagement across various community types.

Our team is in planning and collaborative sessions this week. On Thursday, most of the day is set aside specifically for community and increasing engagement. Your note is timely.


A separate note on timing and proposal work:

The focus has largely been the trademark agreement. It’s very close with some minor but legally important clarification around expectations and responsibilities under the agreement, and how to handle certain edges cases.

Per above, the foundation has committed to collecting community sentiment on proposals. It’s my understanding that they will not do this until the agreement is signed. We are looking forward to that next step.