Defenders of the ZEC

Recently I've taken notice of great deal of generic FUD being thrown at Zcash. Usually it's something like:

  1. Zcash is not private by default, thats BAD!
  2. Zooko even said he's making it traceable (https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863202798883577856)
  3. Why should there be a Trusted Setup! We shouldn't have to trust the founders
  4. Private tx's are basically a DOS attack on your machine. They will never be adopted by exchanges or end users
  5. Alphabay got shut down right after it started accepting zcash... coincidence, I think not!

It's pretty clear that these comments/tweets/posts/whatever originate from a group of people with a very specific agenda. Because they almost always push another privacy centered coin along with the zcash FUD it's probably safe to assume that they are looking to discredit zcash in order to push the price of the coin they are invested in.

While I sometimes see a response to the FUD, most of the time it's going unanswered. I was thinking that it would be great if there was place (private twitter feed maybe?) where we could drop links to the FUD so that we can address it accordingly. I'm not trying to engage with these trolls beyond simply posting some facts. There are so many newcomers to crypto right now and it's painful* to think that people are avoiding zcash based on misinformation.

Here's how I would address the points above but i'm hoping that you guys can help me improve this:

  1. Zcash not private by default, that's BAD!

This is a feature. Being able to transact publicly and privately on the same blockchain makes Zcash open to a larger array of use cases.

  1. Zooko even said he's making it traceable (https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863202798883577856)

Maybe @zooko could clarify on this one. I think I understand where he's going but I can also see how this might cause people to question the privacy of Zcash.

  1. Why should there be a Trusted Setup! We shouldn't have to trust the founders

When Zcash began this was a necessary part of implementing the private transactions. It was done in such a way that no one could possibly know what the seed parameter was (could use help with this one I think).

  1. Private tx's are basically a DOS attack on your machine. They will never be adopted by exchanges or end users

Private transactions are a work in progress. While the privacy part is there, the resource consumption is still being worked on. Thanks to the capable and coordinated zcash developers the protocol is constantly being improved.

  1. Alphabay got shut down right after it started accepting zcash... coincidence, I think not!

Cool theory bro. Can you provide any evidence to support this claim? As it currently stands it looks like the owner of Alphabay's bitcoin transactions lead to his demise https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFW39UYW0AQOQFB.jpg:large

*Full disclosure: While do think Zcash is great, I also stand to benefit financially by wider adoption. I started a zcash game that can't be linked here because of recommendations of the zcash lawyers :slight_smile:

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You should post this on Reddit and other forums. They love hating on Zcash for these reasons alone.

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Where did you get this quote? People actually believe shielding equates to a local denial of service?! :worried:

The AB tin foil is just that. Whilst its exciting to fantasize over some great conspiracy, Shadow Brokers are still walking free so none of it holds any weight.

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@blue I'll post this up after we clean up the responses a little :slight_smile:

@anon I made the DOS quote up to emphasize a point. ha. I have seen criticism of zcash around the RAM required to send shielded transactions though. At the same time, I did once send a shielded tx on a Debian machine with 1GB of RAM and it didn't end well.

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The following is a Dash link but I suspect it may be illustrative for people that want to address FUD against Zcash... I was aware of more of the same toxicity from the Monero crowd but apparently Litecoin harbours people like that as well - https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/6oo8ip/dash_wallet_now_on_bitpanda/ -> https://www.dashforcenews.com/bitsquarebisq-add-dash-base-currency-soon-faces-boycott-threats/

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XMR is having a fantastic day! $8 million volume!! they're dying a slow death, so I expect that from them..

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Volume or not, right now they just had a boost in price

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+2% on $9 million volume is very weak, imo. problem with too many traders in our markets is their high time preference.. patience pays-off in our markets! just sit tight, or don't..

EDIT - in an earlier post i commented on market makers and "free money riders". good chance i'm one of those FMRs, and completely understand how you feel.. it's even driving me a little crazy...but that's the purpose!!!

EDIT 2 - what it really boils down to: we need to hold above $200 for a minute to justify a rise to +$300.

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Yeah, it's crazy how much sh*t people talk about ZEC out there.
Honestly, better for us, difficulty won't rise as much.
Let's continue keeping this a secret, lol

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Been reading a lot lately on how ZenCash will slowly overtake Zcash

What's known about this? Sorry for my lack of knowledge.

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sounds-like a scam, tbh

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Sadly the difficulty has been rising :sweat: But I am still mining and on the HODL side! I just trade to pass the time and increase my portfolio value. Can't wait for a big update on ZEC.

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ZEC difficulty is actually playing to rollercoaster a bit too much for me so I switched to ETH and will exchange into ZEC or something other growing.
My goal is to mine the more profitable coin of the moment for ROI.
I'll hold and pay electricity bill with money

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Humanity loves to be polarized into subgroups having their own "us v them" mentality. It's our pathetic nature

NB - I love that someone read a search warrant! Bravo! What the federal gov lacks in brain power, and they have a lot of that, they more than make up for it in man/women/N-power. This is why once they get on a case, they follow it all the way to eternity. It's their collective investigatory power plus criminal arrogance/stupidity is why they catch offenders...certainly not b/c Alphabay started taking ZEC. Correlation does not prove causality.

I find that it is precisely the anonymity of ZEC to be one of its best - if not the best - feature of it. It's pure cash money in an electronic form...paper has no memory nor do ZECs on "z" addresses. So what if criminals use it...criminals use fiat, guns, cars, sharpie pens...do we get rid of all the Sharpies? God, I hope not...I have them all over the place! I am a privacy lover and don't want my ZEC transactions for more Sharpies to be traced...or whatever else I decide to do with it. Privacy is a basic, natural, self-evident trait of humanity.

All the other technical stuff is beyond my knowledge...I have "Zero Knowledge", so to speak. I "dumbed" into ZCash purely by accident when I started trying to mine ETH with 2gb GPUs, having to look for something suitable to mine. ZCash was where I landed, and I am glad I did.

Dunno if my remarks help, FWIW :slight_smile: It's my opinion that since JP Morgan and the Bank of Singapore see it as something to use, I'll trust their good judgement.

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mine hush -> deposit 50% on topia, place bids and withdraw remaining 50% to cold wallet -> once bids filled, place ask for low caps with set exit target -> once asks filled, place bids for more low caps -> repeat this however many times you like, but don't go full gekko -> finally, place those asks for our precious zec -> withdraw to cold wallet -> hold on for dear life :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

IMO STARKS falls into this

What a relief. At this point in time, even reading this from someone spouting this as the cons of using zec wouldn't surprise me.

1 GB? Someone didn't read the docs :smirk:

@anon while I made up the quote itself, the idea that shielded transactions are unreasonably resource intensive is actively being used as criticism of zcash. I'll post examples if I can find them. I can't remember off the top of my head where I saw that.

With that, I'm thinking i'll just start a another thread and post links to zcash FUD there. Anyone that wants to jump in and help address the misinformation can.

FUD do not bother me at all...

Its a valid criticism if you consider a 8 yr aged laptop with 16GB RAM, takes just under 4 minutes to create a shield tx.
With that said, people seem to forget how young zcash is and that stable hasn't even passed the 1 year mark.
In time the required resources for proofs shall decrease as new solutions surface and later rolled out once thoroughly tested and deemed safe.
We should all take a breath and remind ourselves that it has taken over 3 years to get to where we are now on the verge of implementing segway for Bitcoin, and even that has been a complicated process and with the new developments over the past weekend with Bitcoin Cash, even after NYA, shows that there are still tough times ahead.

A thread dedicated to dissecting FUD would be good, though thought there already was one, but if not go right ahead.