Defenders of the ZEC

Yup. re: resource intensiveness... The gains that GPU hackers made with Equihash when the Zcash mainnet got underway make me think there's plenty of room for improvement for proof generation. btw That's not a criticism of the Zcash team - it's more important that the reference software that they create is easily maintained than ultra-optimised.

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I must admit, I only played with ZEC because of Keybase support. And I can confirm that sheilded tx's take forever.

As far as trusting the founders...we only have to trust one of them. Even if the rest are scumbags, one missing shard is gonna be a pain to get.

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Exactly that. Only takes a single, or few dedicated minds to come along and hash this out. ik easily said than done, but in all due time.

Have you noticed much of difference with other of the Equihash forks.
Zclassic takes half the time, averaging at a few minutes most. Going to look over my hush debug.log and see if there's any difference also.
Haven't looked into the guts of zcl's git repo but assume some modification has been done as the daemon is being run in a direct clone of my zcash dedicated domain.

@OP great idea, something like this is well overdue. There is a lot of shilling against zcash that must be rebutted in an organized fashion. Don’t get mad, organize!

To those who say it doesn’t affect you, trust me it does.

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For the Defenders: https://www.zcashcommunity.com/2017/07/31/zcash-separating-fact-fiction/

(had to edit link for typo in the heading)

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Awesome! I shared it wherever I could :smiley:

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What an awesome article, really enjoy reading it and loved the really accurate information.
May the sharing begin…

Also for the Defenders: https://z.cash/blog/continued-funding-and-transparency.html
"RADICAL TRANSPARENCY"

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Might be good to add some zcoin and zcash comparisons to the list:

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https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15299900

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Zcash really seems to have those Monero trolls rattled. btw Did you have to clean your eyes after reading that site? What a dump!

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Oh yea people love spreading confusion but especially with cryptocurrency, its easy and effective, if i were to say gold is a garbage, unsafe investment bubble, you wouldn’t even bother correcting me, id be that person there with absolutely no business even typing a question. When gold began trading as a commodity in the 70’s maybe those adjectives might have held more weight, because its real only use was aesthetics, jewelry or guilding plating or making something you want to last indefinitely i.e. statues (which are like jewelry), the gold records on voyager 1&2, and if not for the electronics boom might be quite a bit cheaper, digress. Dispelling fears of the unknown is difficult, having an understanding of future potentiality certainly helps (of noob friend of mine referred to crypto as “space age money”; um…well yea sorta not quite there yet but ok, parents aunts uncles never even heard of btc, funny how everyone who says its a bubble is about that age group, coincidence? (Not if you believe in chaos theory) What if crypto were a 9 to 5 mon thru fri minus holidays like the stock market, moving at 1/5 or less the speed it does? That 4000% increase would’ve taken 5 or so years; who would say its a bubble then? The person with no business typing, the older folks like it slow and are more inclined to reject the future. Its like in the matrix, you dont unplug a mind once it reaches a certain age, how could someone with zero understanding of any of it at all, possibly discern fact from fiction? their minds reject all of it, belief and disbelief is determined at that time by association of feelings, not even necessarily pertaining to the subject matter, if the mind has nothing to go on it will create something. The enemy is ignorance, not the misinformer or the provacatuer, they only let you know where you stand. End of line

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It appears as if there is one obnoxious monero troll posting using all those different usernames.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/72nq0t/honestly_zcash_lost_all_recognition_and/?st=J82BZ11F&sh=1471ff7c No idea how to even respond to this.

Looks like a typical Monero circle jerk to me. :wink:

There’s really no response to give. Aside from “Oh look! Monero just hit $200…oh wait. No it didn’t.” :roll_eyes:

The funny thing is, the Monero guys have a serious hate on for Zcash, yet while Monero isn’t winning any awards with the Zcash supporters, we’re hardly out there in droves hammering on them. That speaks volumes to me. It means the Monero guys are afraid of something. Typical high school-like behavior with the bullying of Zcash. They must have a crush on Zcash :wink:

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Monero is certainly better than DASH in terms of privacy and anonymity. However, perhaps … Monero vs Boolberry = VHS vs Betamax. :kissing_heart:

Do people actually believe that anonymity networks like Tor only exist for ‘Bad Dudes’ to use the ‘Deepweb’ ? (That was a rhetorical question btw).

On-chain coin-mixing (coinjoin - DASH) does not provide anonymity, it only provides short-term obfuscated privacy, at best. It’s also more akin to ‘money laundering’ than to any notion of private money.

Confidential Transactions (Monero or Zcash), hiding the amounts being transacted (optional in Zcash at present), in combination with an improved version of Ring Signatures (Monero) does seemingly work well.

However, the future of crypto-currency mass adoption will likely be dictated by user choice in terms of an ability and necessity to both hold and transact in public and/or in private.

The truth is that governments, banks and big business cannot really choose to use Bitcoin because it is a Public ledger. On the flip side they are unlikely to choose Monero because it is (seemingly) to private!

Zcash on the other hand can provide the best of both worlds in this regard.

It’s funny you say that cuz betamax was way better than VHS didn’t catch on because of a money thing
Factoid

Here we go again:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/737is9/charlie_lee_tells_snowden_why_monero_is_better/

Sure would be cool if @zooko could step up and set the record straight about what he meant with his tweet.

We know that there is not a backdoor in Zcash, but I think that something more than this is needed to clarify here. Most people do not have the ability to audit the zcash source on their own (technically speaking).

While we know that most of this is being spread by Monero fanboys (you can see the Monero logo on many of the replies to the Reddit thread above) I think that it’s fair to say that Zooko’s tweet is being used to successfully slow down Zcash adoption. Maybe i’m over reacting but it really does seem that way.

***UPDATE:
So it looks like Zooko has responded to those tweets (via reddit user JamJes):
https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863516385426755585
https://twitter.com/zooko/status/864341289374023680

I don’t know. Maybe there is nothing more that he can do and we just have to keep battling the FUD.

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As someone who peruses r/CryptoCurrency, I finally tired of the FUD, myself. I’ve jumped in to give you some backup and attempt to add some objective push back. Unfortunately, despite the audit, the Trusted Setup remains a point of contention among the anti-ZEC crowd.

One thing that would help clear things up @daira:

As part of the Sapling update, there appears to be serious discussion and movement on implementing a new trust system that would close the theoretical “backdoor” for counterfeiting if the original Trusted Setup were compromised. Am I understanding that correctly as a layman?

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