Disappointed with wallet experiences lately

I forgot where the exact discussion on this but there was some response in this forum from ECC folks, who manages z.cash, that they would add Zwallet (at the time) after they can get someone to review it. This was during NU5 which got delayed a few times so I guess they didn’t have bandwidth for review.

Maybe work together with @earthrise and get Y/Zwallet reviewed?

@earthrise did a cursory review… That’s more than what was done for the other wallets.

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Its futile to try get ECC to list Ywallet on z.cash. They dont want to. (I am not fooled by their ‘We need to audit it first’ spin) Lets move on from this topic.

As a community we can point new users to the most reliable wallet. I would like to see Ywallet audited, but I dont care if its listed on z.cash or not. Ywallet is undoubtedly the best wallet in the Zcash eco-system. I dont care if ECC or ZF recognizes it or not. I will keep on using the best tool for the job. Right now its Ywallet. (although, it can do with a better UI, but i am not complaining)

If an audit is required I would like to see the results of the audits for the other wallets that are listed.

if an audit is not required I would like to know the reason why Ywallet is shadow banned.

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Well - Being listed is a different topic. I hear even zebra isn’t listed, so … ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was simply following up on the OP topic:

There is a wallet that has faster syncing and is more stable, but it is not mentioned anywhere. It seems that even some senior forum members don’t know about its existence.

Therefore I am disappointed that our users don’t get the best experience available, all because of miscommunication.

I have seen many disgruntled users do a 180 after trying YWallet. I think the zcash ecosystem is in better shape than the OP thinks. But I feel that new users aren’t properly informed about what is out there. And I am certain we have lost many users over this.

@BostonZcash

PS: YWallet

  • was compatible with NU-5 one week before activation,
  • didn’t fail to send messages (specially during the NFT offer)
  • has the fastest sync

https://ywallet.app

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Hey @hanh I appreciate your enthusiasm for supporting the Zcash ecosystem based on the bullet points you outlined above and also recognize that you mentioned that Taylor did a cursory review of Ywallet. I tagged you in his thread to see if you are interested in further collaboration with Taylor for Ywallet and other aspects of security in this ecosystem. I hope you could chime in there with your support.

P.S. - Speaking for myself - I would love to support a grant application, from you, to help integrate warpsync upstream to benefit the broader ecosystem if you are willing to collaborate more with the community. I have not used ywallet myself but my current wallet has met my needs and I’ve had no reason to switch. Just an observation I’ll probably regret calling out but it exists… some may be concerned about the Ycash-first orientation of Ywallet and how it may be antithetical to advertise on the z.cash website. My point of view is that Ycash is a friendly fork though and arguably (based on the feedback of countless users) has significantly supported the Zcash ecosystem. So who cares if it’s not on z.cash. You’re succeeding by word of mouth reputation, providing fresh benchmarks for the current wallet makers to outperform, and bringing fresh ideas to the community. Thank you and I hope to see more Zcash community collaboration from you in the future. :heart:

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Ywallet is great. The interface is nice and I love that it supports multiple seeds.

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@ambimorph Thanks

@wobbzz I will fix any security issues obviously.

Thanks but my disappointment is not about Ywallet being absent from the z.cash website.

My post was about the zcash ecosystem/community “failing” to inform its current and potential users of what it has. We got to a point where it seems OK to ignore contributions because they involve other projects (Ycash, Monero).

At the end of the day, we are just hurting the zcash adoption. People have already been turned away by the user experience. If you are on telegram/discord/forum, you would know very well some users are very unhappy about the “official” wallets.

As a community, we shouldn’t rely entirely on the ECC to promote zcash. The absence of Ywallet on their website is a letdown but it doesn’t prevent the community from spreading the word in other ways.

I suggest the community leaders, senior members of the forum, and really everyone, get more involved with the ecosystem and go try out wallets, apps, websites, etc.

PS:
FYI, YWallet is a multi-currency privacy wallet. There doesn’t seem to be an issue with Edge accepting BTC, ETH, etc. so I don’t see why YWallet supporting Ycash should be a factor.

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tl;dr … yes @BostonZcash, I totally agree …

Wallet performance through NU5 and the recent spam attack has been very frustrating and disappointing. I’ve basically quit any outreach or introducing new users to Zcash for the time-being until I can confidently recommend a good mobile wallet. I’ve started diving head-first into the code myself to see if I can contribute to some of the wallets. Digging into the wallet code is good fun for me personally, but I should theoretically be concentrating on free2z.cash milestones. However, I can’t focus on free2z because free2z absolutely depends on at least one super-solid lightwallet to succeed. I will note that I run a couple of zcashd fullnodes and they haven’t given me any trouble.

I’ve been all over different light wallets recently. For a relatively large wallet with about 30 notes and 100+ transactions, not one wallet currently works. ZWL, Nighthawk, YWallet … desktop, mobile … none. Funds are essentially stranded.

As I was drafting this present forum comment, I was planning on writing some high praise for YWallet as a lifesaver:

YWallet is the reigning champion. I have a fairly old wallet with ~30 notes and ~100 transactions and the funds can ONLY be accessed with YWallet. Without YWallet I would have funds stranded and would be sour on Zcash TBH. So, many thanks to @hanh for keeping the dream alive.

BUT, as I was writing this post I went to send some funds on free2z … aaand … Ywallet is not syncing or even attempting to sync it seems. It’s stuck on 1727667 … current block is 1728793. So, about 1,000 blocks behind. Restarting didn’t help. There is no upgrade to get. Internet is strong. The sync indicator goes from “Disconnected” to 1727667 and back with no indication that it’s trying.

ZWL: Desktop crashes frequently, mobile doesn’t sync, crashes
Nighthawk: never worked on my devices. the times I’ve seen it work it’s too slow for my usage patterns
Zingo: still alpha, unreleased, based on same ZWL sync (for now)
YWallet: managed to sync and work a little bit yesterday on android, now it’s not syncing

I’m trying YWallet desktop now … it seems to be trying at least I’ll report back if it works or doesn’t … maybe there is a different public lightwalletd server to try? Seems like the problem must be with the backend at this point?

I plan to do my part to solve some of these problems or contribute to solutions. I plan to run lightwallet infra on free2z subdomain. I’m working on building all of the wallets and making contributions to the code. Here is my current synthetic trunk WIP aka THE ZUU:

Some of my next tasks:

  • run my own lightwalletd on mainnet
  • figure out how to build and work on YWallet
  • make more contributions to zingolib and zingo-mobile

Right now free2z dev work is basically on hold for lack of usable wallets …

Totally agree. I wish that we were in a state where we needed a million-dollar marketing campaign right now. But, the product is not there. I’ve spent several 100 hours working on Zcash UI/UX this year, I run full nodes, I’ve build zcashd and lightwalletd from source, I’ve tried every shielded lightwallet that I’ve heard of. I’ve been a senior software engineer for about 15 years. I built free2z. I joined this forum ~a month after the genesis block in 2016. And even I can’t readily unstrand my funds. I guess I could go read up on zip-32 and figure out how to maybe load my seed phrase into a zcashd (which I run for about $50/month)… We want to bring this technology to the masses but right now it frankly takes an IQ of about 140 to be able to use Zcash at all.

I know centralization is a dirty word around here. But, we should consider the benefits and economy of scale that come with a measure of centralized oversight and direction:

Imagine if downstream dependents (like ZWL) were integrated and upgraded ahead of NU5 …

A metaphor I’ve been playing with is that we are trying to transport many tons of steel across a large ocean; but, instead of building a huge container ship, we’re trying to do it with a bunch of small sailboats. I don’t know if that metaphor is any good yet, still thinking about it. But, consider THE ZUU as an early sketch of what a container ship might look like. Come try it out and help me maintain it ;9

(about 400,000 blocks to go on YWallet sync/rescan on desktop :crossed_fingers: …)

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oh, BTW @hanh, I created this issue: Developer documentation · Issue #23 · hhanh00/zwallet · GitHub - I’m going to take another crack at figuring out how to build YWallet myself and write some notes; but, I’ve never tried Dart so there is a bit of a learning curve to climb. You might be able to crush out a quick pass on the docs there and get me going faster if you were so inclined …

Total ecosystem fragmentation. It sucks to see, but I’m glad you’re interested in working on it.

FWIW, My ledger shows an incorrect balance (again). This same thing happened before, and the suggestion from Ledger IIRC was to delete the app, and re-install. Or something, I actually don’t recall what the issue was nor do I care to even bother fixing it at this point. It’s just another wallet wart. The strangest part is the coin balance isn’t just doubled, it’s like 65% more or something.

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My point is in your presentation of the app in the iOS app store and the user experience upon first opening the app. From an iOS perspective this is clearly Ycash first. It’s only when I get to the app description that I see Zcash is supported.

You made me download it! :slight_smile:

Compared to Edge and Unstoppable, who clearly articulate multi-currency support:

And when I create a new wallet in Unstoppable there is no bias for any particular wallet. The majors are all displayed up front.

But I digress… my main point was that sometimes it seems like you are conflating “we” with “ECC”. The community is obviously here supporting your wallet by word of mouth and testimonials. ZCG is obviously here to support your contributions to the Zcash community as well. Community partnership with Taylor could serve as an avenue for ecosystem projects to gain another voice, supported by the community, that the projects have been evaluated to some degree. I hope to see a list of projects that have been audited/reviewed by ZCG funding in a centralized location that the community can contribute to.

So…

Thank you for your feedback. :slight_smile:

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Lightwalletd is having issues from time to time. Like now.

When it happens, you can switch to ZecWallet (server).

Did you checkout the Build notes?

Edit: Btw, if you are looking to integrate as a server, there is no need to bother with the Dart/Flutter code. You can build the warp sync wallet engine as a standalone RPC/REST server.
It is just pure rust.

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Hmmm … The fact that I am speaking up for Ywallet and I am the author is clearly making some kind of bias and conflict of interest. You guys seem to think that I am upset because Ywallet does not have fame or recognition. Though I really don’t care. I don’t know what else I can say about this. I guess I’m too old or something.

If you were the author and most of the new users (like the OP and many others) were having issues with other apps, I would be equally disappointed.

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Thanks for the info. This is actually a leftover from the time where I had two separate apps. ZWallet and YWallet.

It was 99% the same code base but with different database and chain management. I eventually merged them. However, when it came to pick the survivor, YWallet won because the name ZWallet is already taken in the Apple Store.

IMO having YWallet, ZWallet and WarpWallet would have been even more confusing.

I will change the description in the next release.

Edit: I will also change the first launch UX. I agree it is highly misleading.

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I added some experience-dump to the issue

REST? I’m building it now … I can call the server from a normal web browser with no special client?

Thanks for bringing up this concrete way to address the issue, @tokidoki! OMR surely ought to have an impact on those recent 1,100-output shielded transactions.

Can someone speak to the current priority and progress of fast syncing methods in the ECC wallet SDKs?

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This seems like a reasonable thing to ask!! What’s up? Who should we @message at the ECC?

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I spun up zuul.free2z.cash:9067 and it’s working fine with ywallet on my bigger wallet. I’m sending and receiving funds again! :tada: No guarantees; but, at the moment mainnet.lightwalletd.com:9067 is not working and zuul.free2z.cash:9067 is. So, at least it’s maybe another option.

» grpcurl zuul.free2z.cash:9067 cash.z.wallet.sdk.rpc.CompactTxStreamer/GetLatestBlock
{
  "height": "1729952",
  "hash": "WFgBgq283EsMQy/buNcNZrtVh3bCdJLLZBc+AQAAAAA="
}
» grpcurl mainnet.lightwalletd.com:9067 cash.z.wallet.sdk.rpc.CompactTxStreamer/GetLatestBlock
{
  "height": "1528863",
  "hash": "Q7cH6ldCpwt75l7rL8N5CwZ5dijNNbCYT/pzAQAAAAA="
}

I’m not sure if I will also experience this with my lightwalletd; but, so far no: Server resets its latest block from time to time · Issue #400 · zcash/lightwalletd · GitHub

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(Mine works for 9067 shrug)